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Post by gugne on Mar 9, 2023 9:14:48 GMT
As I'm nearing the end of the frame build it's time to think about the engine. It originally had a Polini Evo, an uprated crank, 19 carb, Polini Banana exhaust and a Parmakit 19 stator and was reasonably quick. I might stick it back on as I was happy enough with the performance. Couple of questions first. 1. Can anyone identify the crank and is it any good? 2. Would the kit benefit from a 24 carb? 3. Is the cylinder any good? Couple of photos also of the cylinder which I think is a "Polini Mono" but can anyone confirm this?
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Post by scooterslag on Mar 9, 2023 17:17:11 GMT
Looks like a Mazz crank to me, as long as your keyways and tapers are good and their is plenty of life in the conrod ( float clearance) then should be fine. Is the crank taper 24mm or 19mm?- the 24mm is better for you. kit wise - I had a polini 130 on the road about 13 years ago and was a great set-up. If memory serves me- the Polini evo had better porting and sealing cylinder head then my older type barrel. Should be fine with the 19mm carb but yep would be better with the 24mm delly. Hope this has been some help, all the best Paul
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Post by henri on Mar 10, 2023 8:03:49 GMT
mazz crank i think , an polini barrel with the older style head ,barrel should have "PM" on outside of transfer flywheel side .those older style heads have a reputation for leaking .i like the barrels there a very nice upgrade when just bolted on .an they have a lot of potential if works put into them ,bolted on your looking 8-9bhp ,worked an with a 24mm carb 14-16bhp is achievable .H
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Post by gugne on Mar 10, 2023 9:09:56 GMT
Looks like a Mazz crank to me, as long as your keyways and tapers are good and their is plenty of life in the conrod ( float clearance) then should be fine. Is the crank taper 24mm or 19mm?- the 24mm is better for you. kit wise - I had a polini 130 on the road about 13 years ago and was a great set-up. If memory serves me- the Polini evo had better porting and sealing cylinder head then my older type barrel. Should be fine with the 19mm carb but yep would be better with the 24mm delly. Hope this has been some help, all the best Paul It was a new crank fitted 2 years ago by a mate when the scooter was in Italy. It's only done about 6 tanks of petrol so hardly used. I tried to measure the crank but I wasn't sure where exactly on each side so I didn't make a note. Can anyone help?
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Post by gugne on Mar 10, 2023 9:14:24 GMT
mazz crank i think , an polini barrel with the older style head ,barrel should have "PM" on outside of transfer flywheel side .those older style heads have a reputation for leaking .i like the barrels there a very nice upgrade when just bolted on .an they have a lot of potential if works put into them ,bolted on your looking 8-9bhp ,worked an with a 24mm carb 14-16bhp is achievable .H I haven't seen the PM on it anywhere but I'll look on Sunday. When you say "worked" do you mean porting the transfers or something else? Also if I went with this set up would it be worth going with the 27/69 gearing and a short 4th Xmas tree or leave it as standard? Thanks all for your help.
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Post by henri on Mar 10, 2023 16:50:56 GMT
for seal size its easy , on flywheel side journal if its 20mm bearing size an theres no step its a large taper crank .20mm bearing an a step down to 19mm seal area its a small taper crank . no point measuring the clutch side there all the same ,well apart from falc n quatt cranks that is . by worked i mean , 3mm off top of barrel ,an 2mm off the bottom ,an a 5mm packer made . open transfers out at base to be more funnel shaped an match to cases .then widen/arch n raise exhaust port roof ,an flow the exhaust port aswell . the work on exhaust timings would depend on pipe being used , as would your gearing questions . say a torquey pipe used ,a stock primmy ratio primarys would pull it ,just , but a short 4th tree would help . but on a mild pipe like the new polini one or say the vmc tork it would be ok . just any head wind ,uphill or your a fat lad the jump from 3rd to 4th is going to be tricky ,needing max revs in 3rd before a quick change . if you want a red light bandit wheelie monster use v90/100 primarys ,will cut ya top mph but you'll get there quickly ,an never have to change a front tyre ever .H
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Post by henri on Mar 10, 2023 16:53:22 GMT
the question to be asked ,an answered honestly is . what do you want from the engine/scooter , how much cash ya got , an how many pies do you eat in a day on average .H
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Post by tzsteve on Mar 11, 2023 8:45:42 GMT
If you have the clutch out and are looking at primaries you could look at the Hartz4. Very good but not cheap the big plus is that the Honda plates last longer and can handle a lot more power (30 BHP at a guess with 6 springs). But use an sae90 of some type I was getting less than 1000 miles to a four plate clutch with only 17 bhp.
Don't use the full set of springs as they are too strong. JSS put me on to a set of XL springs.
There are a couple of threads on the hartz4 all worth looking at
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Post by gugne on Mar 11, 2023 9:29:47 GMT
the question to be asked ,an answered honestly is . what do you want from the engine/scooter , how much cash ya got , an how many pies do you eat in a day on average .H After reading your previous post "worked" is more than I want to do. It just seemed a bit of a waste not using all the bits but I guess I can use them on the spare cases I have and sell the complete engine. I've got my "cafe racer" over in Italy so I just wanted the engine on this one to be improved a bit without spending silly money. Plus I weigh fvck all so every 1 bhp for me is like 5 for you normal sized humans. I'm still thinking of the VMC ET7 kit as a guide to my spend limits. Would that crank work with it?
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Post by gugne on Mar 11, 2023 9:31:10 GMT
If you have the clutch out and are looking at primaries you could look at the Hartz4. Very good but not cheap the big plus is that the Honda plates last longer and can handle a lot more power (30 BHP at a guess with 6 springs). But use an sae90 of some type I was getting less than 1000 miles to a four plate clutch with only 17 bhp. Don't use the full set of springs as they are too strong. JSS put me on to a set of XL springs. There are a couple of threads on the hartz4 all worth looking at I've gone with a Polini wave spring and newfren sport corks plus a Crimaz pressure plate and xl cover kit. Works fine on my Pro cup.
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Post by scooterslag on Mar 11, 2023 11:32:12 GMT
the question to be asked ,an answered honestly is . what do you want from the engine/scooter , how much cash ya got , an how many pies do you eat in a day on average .H After reading your previous post "worked" is more than I want to do. It just seemed a bit of a waste not using all the bits but I guess I can use them on the spare cases I have and sell the complete engine. I've got my "cafe racer" over in Italy so I just wanted the engine on this one to be improved a bit without spending silly money. Plus I weigh fvck all so every 1 bhp for me is like 5 for you normal sized humans. I'm still thinking of the VMC ET7 kit as a guide to my spend limits. Would that crank work with it? Just stick with your polini set-up you've already got rather than spend out on a new top end , just make improvements with bigger carb/ pipe etc. You said it was reasonably quick so should be ok? cheers Paul
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Post by gugne on Mar 11, 2023 15:53:08 GMT
After reading your previous post "worked" is more than I want to do. It just seemed a bit of a waste not using all the bits but I guess I can use them on the spare cases I have and sell the complete engine. I've got my "cafe racer" over in Italy so I just wanted the engine on this one to be improved a bit without spending silly money. Plus I weigh fvck all so every 1 bhp for me is like 5 for you normal sized humans. I'm still thinking of the VMC ET7 kit as a guide to my spend limits. Would that crank work with it? Just stick with your polini set-up you've already got rather than spend out on a new top end , just make improvements with bigger carb/ pipe etc. You said it was reasonably quick so should be ok? cheers Paul You're probably right and I'll probably do that but there's that fecking magpie part of me that just loves shiny new scooter bits to play with.
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Post by scooterslag on Mar 11, 2023 16:06:48 GMT
Just stick with your polini set-up you've already got rather than spend out on a new top end , just make improvements with bigger carb/ pipe etc. You said it was reasonably quick so should be ok? cheers Paul You're probably right and I'll probably do that but there's that fecking magpie part of me that just loves shiny new scooter bits to play with. Ah yeah... the shiny luster of new scooter bits. difficult to ignore sometimes and I have to work hard to stop myself Your Polini kit is very versatile and has numerous combinations ( gears/pipe/carb/ignition) you can try to get what you want, Plus if as you say- you weigh the same as a bag of peanuts then 14-16bhp will propel you in a rapid fashion. Try searching peoples specs on this forum or somewhere like the German scooter forum www.germanscooterforum.de/, all the best Paul
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Post by gugne on Mar 13, 2023 9:44:00 GMT
Cables connected switch connected Grips fitted SIP levers fitted. Got to look for some wavy washers before I fit the bolts though. The new speedo is a SIP one. Seems like the standard festoon bulb wont fit. I've had a look and found a different bulb that should fit As far as the engine I'm going to stick with the original Polini kit but change the carb and maybe pipe. Suggestions are very welcome. It has a mazz crank and a Parmakit fly so they are going to stay. Here are the original voltage reg and CDI. Any suggestions for replacements? So that's it for this week. I need suggestions for carb, pipe, cdi and voltage reg and I can start on the engine.
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Post by tzsteve on Mar 13, 2023 17:23:23 GMT
Khepher CDIs are very good and designed for a standard stator, on these the advance curve can be programmed I have an old one. I have been told the newer ones can be programmed by mobile.
These are very reliable and give a superb spark
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Post by henri on Mar 14, 2023 7:27:29 GMT
parmakits use IDM components , so any cdi an reg box from parmakit/malossi/vespatronic/vmc ignitions will work .a stock pk/px reg box will also work ,VE uk hold stock of the malossi cdi's there about £55 . they also hold the sip vape ac regulator that will work with your system .for carb suggestions i'd say a 24mm phbl ,but you'll have to change manifold too . exhausts the new polini ones are good ,or if looking for something racier the vmc nifty-fifty will work well with a iron polini . if you want to message me i can get you prices on all of the above ,or show you sources for them if wanting to order yourself .H
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Post by gugne on Mar 14, 2023 9:43:40 GMT
parmakits use IDM components , so any cdi an reg box from parmakit/malossi/vespatronic/vmc ignitions will work .a stock pk/px reg box will also work ,VE uk hold stock of the malossi cdi's there about £55 . they also hold the sip vape ac regulator that will work with your system .for carb suggestions i'd say a 24mm phbl ,but you'll have to change manifold too . exhausts the new polini ones are good ,or if looking for something racier the vmc nifty-fifty will work well with a iron polini . if you want to message me i can get you prices on all of the above ,or show you sources for them if wanting to order yourself .H H, I'll order from you as you've given me so much help over the years. I'll message you on Messenger to confirm but here is what I want: CDI and reg- you pick 24 PHBL and manifold And a Polini exhaust- you pick Thanks
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Post by gugne on Mar 20, 2023 10:16:54 GMT
Hub bolt and split pin fitted after finding out what was rubbing using some engineers blue. It was the back plate. Cap fitted Speed bulb fitted and speedo fitted Wavy washers fitted so the bolts could be fitted on the levers Crimaz pressure plate fitted to clutch Crimaz geared conversion fitted to clutch cover So there you go, frame is mainly done. Didn't bother fitting the light because you just know you'll be back inside that headset before the build is finished. Parts arrived from Henri. 24 Dellorto and manifold plus a Polini exhaust and the cdi and reg so it's time to rebuild the engine. As regards the gearing, the standard I have is 21/61 which gives 2.9 ratio. Is it possible to buy a 24 main to make it 2.54 (which is close to a 27/69 at 2.56) or can anyone recommend a size that would fit to give me a bit more acceleration but less top end? Also I've changed all the bearings except the crank as I thought I was going 20 but are the following right for the 19 crank? 1 x SKF 6303 Open Deep Groove Ball Bearing 17x47x14mm 1 x SKF 6204C3 Open Deep Groove Ball Bearing 20x47x14mm Not in the garage next week as I'm working so you'll have to wait 2 weeks for more of this gripping fun!
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Post by henri on Mar 21, 2023 6:39:42 GMT
on small an large taper cranks the bearings are same size ,with the exception being the ets large taper crank . an i use 6303 17x47x14 c3 on the clutch side .H
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Post by gugne on Mar 21, 2023 9:32:26 GMT
on small an large taper cranks the bearings are same size ,with the exception being the ets large taper crank . an i use 6303 17x47x14 c3 on the clutch side .H Thanks H
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