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Post by madmax on Feb 14, 2013 13:03:20 GMT
Right, correct me if I'm wrong but all I can see through the bag is just a clutch with no primary basket etc....? Maybe we should ask eean what's in the bag?
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Post by tony on Feb 14, 2013 13:15:42 GMT
Falc basket and sundries 308g
Drt Cnc basket with gear kit 69 tooth primary fear attached and all fitted as I am not stripping again for this weigh-off is 668g
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Post by tony on Feb 14, 2013 13:17:37 GMT
Right, correct me if I'm wrong but all I can see through the bag is just a clutch with no primary basket etc....? Maybe we should ask eean what's in the bag? It is just the clutch max as that is what I asked for. The most weight is here and it's the clutch that sits on the taper not the basket. That is why it was important to me you see. Of course the plates are kind of supported by the basket but I don't think there will be much difference in the basket weight only in that the hartz is wider in diameter and therefore have more effect. It's a bit like the tyre choice for sprinting we discussed the other day where we agreed that using a 3.50 is more mass to turn possibly affecting performance.
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Post by eean on Feb 14, 2013 14:47:33 GMT
Ok Ill weigh the lot after for ya with a list of whats there ;D re tyre size Ive gone to a 90 90 10 now I think this clutch will be fine for what Im using it for(i hope ;D)
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Post by amazombi on Feb 14, 2013 15:05:44 GMT
I think the main stress on the shaft is quite possibly not caused by the weight of the clutch but by the power of the engine. In comparison to that the difference in weight is pretty much negligible, I'd say. On a standard 50 not even a 10kg clutch will cause any damage.
Falc uses aluminium plates, which is a good thing because the friction coeficcient of aluminum is much higher than that of steel. It's also only about a third of the weight of steel, which helps knocking the weight down. And it shifts heat better. The downside is that it's nowhere near as strong as steel plates, and it last nowhere near as long. Hence burned out clutches like hotwheel's happen every now and then. Even if that doesn't happen you still have aluminium particles floating about in your oil, bearings, gearbox. No big deal if you change the oil a bit more often, I suppose. It's a question of taste, I guess. You could upgrade the Falc with steelplates too. Or you could knock some weight of the Hartz with ally plates. Depends on what you want.
As far as inertia is concerned the outer clutch basket is way more important than the inner basket. The Hartz outer basket is pretty light.
I'm not saying any of the clutches is better, they are different approaches with different solutions.
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Post by tony on Feb 14, 2013 15:20:21 GMT
Yes totally. At first a Falc clutch would only last a few laps in my bike and John had grief too. I spent a bit of time with different materials and spring rates and even on how the clutch was cooled. It's reliable now. Hotwheels first clutch failure was due to not enough oil IMO . In his new sprint motor the Cush drive failed so I have fitted the drt basket and Cush system ( the high end one) as is fitted to mine.
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Post by eean on Feb 14, 2013 16:57:22 GMT
Total of everything inc xl2 press plate (cheers Max ) is 1534 grams. Springs repair kit primary 69 clutch basket. Basket bare is 273grams
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Post by jonnysnatchsniffer on Feb 15, 2013 12:48:00 GMT
ill weigh mine now
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Post by jonnysnatchsniffer on Feb 15, 2013 13:13:58 GMT
or at least i would if my scales worked so why not use splines on the end of the crank, and also the clutch spider and xmas tree i know it means more bespoke cogs etc but it then only leaves the clutch to slip
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Post by eean on Feb 16, 2013 15:57:35 GMT
or at least i would if my scales worked so why not use splines on the end of the crank, and also the clutch spider and xmas tree i know it means more bespoke cogs etc but it then only leaves the clutch to slip yep Jonny thats what I think too any way got the TT92 90 90 10 fitted today
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Post by madmax on Feb 16, 2013 16:45:32 GMT
so why not use splines on the end of the crank, and also the clutch spider and xmas tree You can get xmas tree and clutch spiders with splines already:
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Post by eean on Feb 16, 2013 17:16:57 GMT
Interesting Max, who's stuff is that then
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Post by madmax on Feb 16, 2013 17:54:00 GMT
They are made in Italy eean...
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Post by eean on Feb 16, 2013 19:59:09 GMT
Who by Max Tony if your clutch is now reliable and its 0.5 kilo's lighter than this of mine why are you thinking of fitting this or did you just need the weight to find out? That clutch and spider system Max has put a picture up of would completely eliminate the spinning of a spider etc, but is that system so new for smallframes, has it only just come out?
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Post by madmax on Feb 16, 2013 20:23:30 GMT
They are made by a member of et3.it and have been properly tested.
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Post by eean on Feb 16, 2013 22:54:16 GMT
Looks good
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Post by tony on Feb 16, 2013 23:28:23 GMT
Who by Max Tony if your clutch is now reliable and its 0.5 kilo's lighter than this of mine why are you thinking of fitting this or did you just need the weight to find out? That clutch and spider system Max has put a picture up of would completely eliminate the spinning of a spider etc, but is that system so new for smallframes, has it only just come out? You always have to be open to new ideas mate. I like the idea of wider cr80 plates.. But the cr80 used 5 plates with 20hp. So I was curious. Also as I said I have spun a the Falc clutch on the tree prior to the hardened keys whether I used a standard key or none at all. That didn't work for me. So through discussion I learned that the hartz center appears to be of harder material. If I torqued a Falc spider to whatever Mathias said it would spread and hit the clutch basket. In fact I tried it on an old spider i had to be sure.. It did. I be honest.. I don't like the extra weight of the hartz and the clutch is still an unknown quantity to me. But with the motor I am to build I will use Falc again because I know how to modify it to handle big power if need be. If a German supplier wants to send me a hartz I will test it on the big circuits and at the sprint meeting and then i will know for sure what it is like in my motor. But I don't have 375 quid to hand at the moment to test. One thing with me mate is I don't fuck about. I will just go ride the bike and show what works and what doesn't. Example is the bgm pro shock. According to sck it worked very well in esc but it overheated and lost damping very quick at Mallory on my bike. Sck listened to me and modded it to suit. I am not 100% it's enough yet but my point is., just because someone says "this works" it may not be the case on your application. I am sure the hartz will be fine on your bike seeing as you can torque it so high and you are not racing so not concerned with that extra half a kilo bouncing up and down at 90mph 😊 And as I said .. If someone wants to send me one I will test it.
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Post by eean on Feb 17, 2013 0:18:56 GMT
Yeh totally agree to being open to new ideas, but for it coming up for sale for the price I got it at Id have put a thread up on which clutch to go for to sprint with, Im not sure yet as to how high I feel comfortable to torque that nut on my new DRT tree yet though lol!
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Post by Juan on Feb 17, 2013 16:44:26 GMT
So are you intending to do some meetings this season then Tony?
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Post by tony on Feb 17, 2013 17:38:20 GMT
Yes mate. It's been a weird time at the bsso with the loss of Jon Uffindell. His funeral was Friday and was attended by all the racing fraternity. I think it makes you realise how short life can be. I hope to do a few meetings and the shoot out. Saving for a house with Angie though so won't do them all
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