V100 Sport Build Critique

[jordanaitor]

Hi all,

I just picked up a 1980 100 Sport in Canada (Yay for Eurospec and not a USA spec model). It was made aware to me that it had a nasty air leak and I confirmed this as when its warm, it tends to rev hang.

Being in Canada makes buying parts a bit trickier so Im trying to batch my orders between SIP, Racing Planet and Scooter Mercato. Here’s what I have in mind.

Polini 130cc
SIP Road Banana
stock SHB19/19
Polini Evolution clutch (4 plate w/wave spring)
CIF 4 speed trans swap
Stock 100 Sport Primary (2.88?)
NU204 bearing upgrade
Mazz rotary race crank in 19/20 stock taper
HT coil and pick up from a PX w/OEM Ducati CDI upgrade (Stock 100 sport has the provisions for digital ignition)

My main concerns are my stock primaries boding well with the CIF 4 speed upgrade, I keep hearing about running a DRT short 4th but am trying to keep it somewhat of a budget sportier build. I would love for it to do sprints to 100kmh but I wont be picky if it doesn’t. Otherwise id like to cruise from 80-90kmh. Clutch and flywheel pullers are on their way! 

Lastly, when I ripped off the bore, the crank did seem to have radial play in the conrod which I would’ve liked to reuse but since I’m in there, I may as well swap it. I sort of want to keep the flywheel (small taper) to save money but part of me thinks upgrading to a 20mm crank beefs up the stub with the M12 nut. But then again maybe I’m overthinking the power levels of this build considering its tamer “sport” nature. 


Can anyone share any revisions to the parts options or am I kinda on the right track?

[tzsteve]

I love the size of the play pen that you have access to. Not only enough space for the work, but also enough space to practice the wheelies after the work is done.

The crank swap to a bigger taper really is a must for that cylinder. My experience is that the standard cranks drop the taper off the crank web on anything with a bit of umph. Unfortunately this means buying a different flywheel plus a different bearing for the fly side NOT a 204. I can't remember the number for the ( conversion bearings ) there are two types they both work well and give no problems.
The cheaper option requires a large gear shaft cir-clip as a spacer. Again this option gives no problems. I think the price difference on the two bearings would be about $50.



You can by much lighter flywheels but the better ones require a different stator some wiring changes etc. It is possible to lighten a standard flywheel but don't go too far or the flywheel can fall apart sending magnets etc through the case and body work ( happened to me 30 years ago )

[henri]

the conversion bearing TZ mentions is a 25x47x12 6005 c3 ,but only needed for a ets crank into older cases .there about £8 here in uk ,or malossi do a 25x47x14 bearing ,but there £50. mazz do a large taper 20/20 crank that can use the NU204 bearing .
ive built 130cc engines before an stuck with the v90/100 primarys an 4 speed gearboxes ,they work well together .an avoid the need for short 4th trees as a necessity,especially if milder torquey pipes are used .they will work nicely with a sip road an your set up ,be a bit of a redlight bandit with rapid acceleration .but should give you your desired speeds .H

[henri]

an to be picky ,thats not a v100 sport , its a v100S , the "S" stands for sport as it came with a 19mm carb an 3 port barrel as standard .the v100 sport is the model with battery door ,indicators an a terrible mixed AC/DC electrical system an a few other gimmicks ,neutral light/front brake lightswitch an a useless fuel tap .H

[tzsteve]

I did have a hunch that H would spot all the subtle differences but it's still a nice little scoot.
For me the ETS crank is the way to go, maz have a good enough reputation. but the ETS has a larger diameter at the crank snapping point if my old man memory is correct (60% extra strength). The 25.47.14 bearing is available as a split roller bearing which might be preferable for ease of assembly

[jordanaitor]

Thank you everyone for the tips! Since I just semi committed myself to running an EI set up, what’s the best budget OEM-style flywheel I can run with an ETS 20/20 crank?

Because Henri just schooled me on the nomenclature of the model, now I’m wondering if I bamboozled myself and don’t actually have the correct flywheel to run my budget EI set up… doh.

[tzsteve]

If you can post a picture of the stator you have ( after the pullers arrive ) there are dozens here who will give you shed loads of info. You will then also know if you have points ignition or electronic as options. The standard electronic CDI is very good for most setups and are very reliable. Points can be very good even up to very high engine speeds but take a little more maintenance.


It looks like you have points at the moment

[henri]

its a 50/50 chance , v100 sports had the points/electronic small taper flywheels always . but the v100s could come with points only or the points/electronic fly ,it all depended on what piaggio had available .
but a change to a 20/20 crank or the ets 24/25 crank would need a new flywheel anyway ,there all large taper an your old crank was 19/20 small taper .1st numbers seal size ,2nd numbers bearing journal size .
the easiest available flywheels are the pl170 type , actually indian but made under licence from piaggio . scooter mercato should have them , if not scooterwest in usa .be careful buying from scooterwest tho , a look at there listings an its few "one size fits all" deal . obviously just copy&paste from there indian suppliers ebay listings an incorrect .so caution is needed .
an as TZ says thats a points ht coil ,an points flywheel cover , a electronic fly apart from the sport one wont fit under it ,a pk flywheel cover will be needed .H

[henri]

Mar 28, 2023 7:54:00 GMT tzsteve said:

I did have a hunch that H would spot all the subtle differences but it's still a nice little scoot.
For me the ETS crank is the way to go, maz have a good enough reputation. but the ETS has a larger diameter at the crank snapping point if my old man memory is correct (60% extra strength). The 25.47.14 bearing is available as a split roller bearing which might be preferable for ease of assembly

OI , are you saying i'm wearing my anorak , it was raining here today mate , an it is a very nice looking scoot ,good colour .
an didnt know the 25/47/14 came in a roller bearing ,will go look .H

[tzsteve]

Very rare for you this mate. You are one of the encyclopedias here.

But that split roller ain't cheap. I had a couple in my old case prior to the falc 1/2 case I think about 10 years ago I paid around £60 - £70.

Nice bearing glass filled nylon cage plus 1 extra roller. but it didn't stop me blowing the big end ⚒️🛠️⚙️⚒️🪛 followed by a long push home and a rebuild



And even after all these years I never noticed a difference in the fly covers. I've even had a pk or 2 and built a couple.


Bugger I'm getting old and forgetful.

[jordanaitor]

I am now leaning towards a 20/20 crank because I can still retain the NU204 bearing in the kit I ordered, may as well upgrade to the M12 nut, thanks for the advice all.

Now my issue is playing Schrödinger’s cat with the flywheel as my puller tools are supposed to arrive today. In the event I do go with the 20/20 Mazzoti race crank, I’ll need a new flywheel anyways and the only real option is to go with the PL170 made in India flywheel off eBay as its cheap as chips $50USD or $68CAD. I have since already bought the LT coil and pick up to convert my stator to an EI model but can this mod only be done on a 100 Sport stator? Part of me thinks I need a different stator now too and can’t do the quick budget mod that the American 100 sports have done in the past. For $100USD you can get the 12v stator, PL170 flywheel and aftermarket Ducati CDI on eBay (I’d junk the CDI as I purchased an original from Mercato) which might be the next best option before spending 250-300 GBP on a variable ignition set up.

[henri]

a v100 sport stator can be converted to electronic ,just remove points an condenser an fit a pick-up an replace lt coil . a v100 points stator cant be done as there a different baseplate .H

[jordanaitor]

Alright, tear down has begun. Can you guys let me know if the flywheel and stator can be used for EI? The stator doesn’t look like the ones I’m used to seeing when I search up 100 sport stator so I’m kinda miffed. I had a hard time removing the Christmas tree from the case halve but a bit of heat and tightening the tree in a vice and rocking the case did the trick. Lastly, I’m having a hard time removing the NU204 outer race. I tried welding a washer to it so I had some meat to punch it down but it cooled before the welds broke off, not a fan of welding so close to the aluminum too because you can see it nicked a a bit of parent material. The clutch plates were half dry, maybe that’s why it was randomly slipping when kicking. Can you tell I had a bit of a flywheel side air leak haha. Woodruff key on the primary pinion slipped down quite a bit, had some signs of wear, that’ll get replaced. Lastly, I could not for the life of me get the roll pin out of the gear selector batwing. Loads of heat and then quenched it many times with a roll pin punch was no good, might have to take it to a machine shop and drill it out. 

[gugne]

That's why I never use a 2 piece bearing: easier build but a bloody nightmare to get out. I had to get a mate to remove mine. I think he welded a bar across the inner and then pulled it out. Other ways might be cutting some lines in the inner with a dremel.

[tzsteve]

That's a nice clean ply pen what's it normally used for?

It's always nicer to work on engines that are as clean as that one

And my oh my, you do have a heavy flywheel and one of the dim light stators.
Yes we all have the same problem on that bearing untill we get some blind hole bearing pullers. There are very sound reasons why Piaggio Fit a roller bearing there it could just be the dynamic load rating on rollers is many times higher than the equivalent deep groove ball bearings

[tzsteve]

Just a little question, are you sticking with the standard clutch cover or do you plan to get hold of one of the long lever types similar to V50S/PKXL I have no experience of the clutch that you are fitting so don't know how much wrist strain they cause, but a few of the (race/not for road/no guarantee) ones can be brutal

So what are the import taxes like when you get stuff from India or the E.U.

[jordanaitor]

Mar 30, 2023 11:41:05 GMT tzsteve said:

That's a nice clean ply pen what's it normally used for?

It's always nicer to work on engines that are as clean as that one

And my oh my, you do have a heavy flywheel and one of the dim light stators.
Yes we all have the same problem on that bearing untill we get some blind hole bearing pullers. There are very sound reasons why Piaggio Fit a roller bearing there it could just be the dynamic load rating on rollers is many times higher than the equivalent deep groove ball bearings

I work at a transit bus depot, luckily have access to a lot of hardware and tooling which is super nice since I live in an apartment with no wrenching space.

I am definitely at a standstill with the ignition, I want to ditch the heavy flywheel and 6v stator and my options seem to vary greatly in technical skill and price point. I do have access to a Parmakit ignition set up for a very good price from a friend but it is a 19mm stub. Reports are telling me that since it’s a lighter flywheel I should be okay with running the Mazz 19 with this and Parma also states it will be fine. I’d like to go 20mm but the cost just adds up in terms of not being able to run my friends 19 kit and having to source an PK stator and flywheel. Scooter Mercato has told me that I cannot run that PL170 flywheel from India as I’ll need to machine my cases to fit it. I also feel like if I go down this less-than-documented-path I’ll run into electrical wiring woes that will wipe out my summer on this thing. It’s clear to me that I have the skill set now to split it easily in case I do need to go 20 in the future but for now I think ill stick with the 19.

Thinking about sticking with the stock clutch cover to save money and either doing a 4 plate Newfren/Surflex plate and going with the Polini Wave spring. The Surflex/Newfren plates seem to be the go to here on these forums. Should I be going with sport/race discs? I’d love to the get the Crimaz 6 spring set up but it’s sold out everywhere and shipping anything from Italy is crazy expensive. Thought about the Stoffi equivalent as well but the cost will begin to add up. 

Taxes and duties are kinda strict in Canada, typically its 12% tax due and then MAYBE duties if the pricing is over $200CAD or so. What I end up doing is just shipping everything to the USA as it’s only a 30 min drive south of the border for me and driving it up is less of an issue. I have a friend visiting from Chichester in 2 weeks and was trying to send them an SIP order but it seems <135GBP incurs no duty but VAT is charged at time of delivery? When I factor in VAT, I may as well ship an order >135GBP to the USA and pay a bit more shipping but incur no VAT or import duty.

[henri]

yep points only stator an fly ,i dont know why mercato are saying you need to machine your cases for a pl170 fly ,thats utter bullshit .they fit straight on with no problems unless youve gone for a much bigger barrel .maybe mercato are under the impression its a small door engine as a small piece of fly surround needs to be removed on them .
if you stick with a newfren 3 plate clutch kit an polini wave spring it will hold a polini 130 easily ,i can get them in uk for £24 the pair easily ,an have a set here for the nxt engine i'm building .H

[jordanaitor]

Mar 31, 2023 6:13:28 GMT henri said:

yep points only stator an fly ,i dont know why mercato are saying you need to machine your cases for a pl170 fly ,thats utter bullshit .they fit straight on with no problems unless youve gone for a much bigger barrel .maybe mercato are under the impression its a small door engine as a small piece of fly surround needs to be removed on them .
if you stick with a newfren 3 plate clutch kit an polini wave spring it will hold a polini 130 easily ,i can get them in uk for £24 the pair easily ,an have a set here for the nxt engine i'm building .H

Checked out the bag of parts I got from the seller and there was a set of SIP handlebar turn signals, switch and a 4 plate sport Surflex clutch kit! Score. Going to get the roll pin removed at a machine shop next week and bearings in towards mid April. Lots of Italian rebuild videos online show them using the 6204 bearing instead of the NU204 which I find interesting, and none of them use a proper puller to pull the taper thru and reduce race damage, quite odd. 

Think I’m going to go with my friends used Parma 19 kit and upgrade the brake switch and hand controls to 12v. I am so excited to get it up and running. 

Next time im in the UK I for sure wouldn’t mind getting a beer with you guys since I’ll be in Chich and Brighton I think this winter. 

[tzsteve]

The Parma kits are super good, super light and reliable but bloody pricy. You may want some tips on the wiring as they come off some chinese twist and go.

I can't help on that as I rewound my stator to run with a Yam LC regulator and a full DC setup

Avotechnica.com do the same type of kit for a good bit less. They are also happy to sell individual items from the kit. I think the fly is about 1kg but I ain't taking mine off to check. If you are not going to do any super tuning on the cylinder that would be a nice choice.

My motor only puts out about 17 BHP. But can destroy the sticky out dogs on the cork plates of a surflex/newfren set in 600 to 1000 miles. This causes clutch drag etc. But they are a very good choice for motors that are a little better than the 4 or 5 ponies from a standard engine.

And I so love that playpen you have. looking at the setup it's a damned site cleaner than many workshops that I have been in, I have done H&S Inspections in a few none have ever been as clean as yours.
I did an H&S inspection in one fabrication shop where it was normal practice for supervisors to tell someone to get on a pallet on a FLT to be lifted up for working at height that stopped after someone got entangled in the mechanism and had his head ripped off (messy) dirty workshops tend to be dangerous places to work.


The exhaust you are planing to use may be a little restrictive but the fact that they fit and don't make too much din can make them a very persuasive option. Especially if you live in a country where the cops carry lethal weapons.