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Post by oldbodger on Oct 3, 2023 9:18:15 GMT
Hello,
I am new to the forum. I'm an old Yank working for the US Army in Germany with minimal mechanical experience.
I bought a PKXL2 2 years ago and I upgraded to 75cc ,then 102cc, and now Polini 130cc.
I have had numerous problems and several piston seizures, mostly due to my own mistakes; vacuum leaks and the like. I bought all the stators new from Scooter Center and/or SIP.
Stator #1: BGM. Lost spark, replaced it and everything worked for a few thousand km's.
Stator#2 : "Piaggio". Ignition would not shut off the engine. Replaced it and everything worked for a few thousand km's.
Stator#3 :BGM. Lost spark, replaced it and everything worked for a few thousand km's.
Stator#4 : "Piaggio". Everything was fine for 800km. Now ignition key will not shut off the engine, all other electrics and the Vespa itself work fine. The ignition problem happened after the fan-wheel side oil seal failed. I replaced the oil seal and cleaned the stator and have been riding it.
My theory is that all these problems are a result of overheating.
But any other opinions are welcome.
Old Bodger
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Post by jbcollier on Oct 3, 2023 12:16:34 GMT
If you are unable to shut off the scoot, it is not the stator. All the ignition key does to shut the engine off is to connect the ignition primary circuit to ground. So, bad contacts in the ignition switch, ignition switch has no connection to ground, ignition switch has no connection to the primary circuit.
Do you have electronic ignition or points? If electronic ignition, does the "box" have the following connections?
White Red Green Green
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Post by oldbodger on Oct 3, 2023 14:40:11 GMT
If you are unable to shut off the scoot, it is not the stator. All the ignition key does to shut the engine off is to connect the ignition primary circuit to ground. So, bad contacts in the ignition switch, ignition switch has no connection to ground, ignition switch has no connection to the primary circuit. Do you have electronic ignition or points? If electronic ignition, does the "box" have the following connections? White Red Green Green Thank you for your response. What I don't understand is that if I put in a new stator, as I have done before, the ignition switch will turn off the scooter. It has electronic ignition, with the blue Ducati CDI. I can kill the engine by connecting a wire from the CDI to the frame. Can't remember which slot it went in the CDI but I have gone through this diagnostic maneuver in the past when I had the same issue. |
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Post by henri on Oct 4, 2023 7:06:26 GMT
1st off ,ive had nothing but trouble with bgm stators on smallframes ,so refuse to fit them now .the lost spark is most likely a failed pickup ,the little black box with a red wire to it .
the ignition switch not working could be a few things ,one is theres 2 ways the low tension coil on stator is earthed out by ignition to kill the spark . one way is a green wire from the cdi spare connection to switch ,other is a green wire direct from lt coil on stator to switch .
but as above its more likely a bad connection on junction box ,broken green wire in loom ,or the switch itself .an as the problem comes an goes with stator swaps my moneys on a dodgy connection .H
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Post by oldbodger on Oct 5, 2023 10:41:37 GMT
1st off ,ive had nothing but trouble with bgm stators on smallframes ,so refuse to fit them now .the lost spark is most likely a failed pickup ,the little black box with a red wire to it . the ignition switch not working could be a few things ,one is theres 2 ways the low tension coil on stator is earthed out by ignition to kill the spark . one way is a green wire from the cdi spare connection to switch ,other is a green wire direct from lt coil on stator to switch . but as above its more likely a bad connection on junction box ,broken green wire in loom ,or the switch itself .an as the problem comes an goes with stator swaps my moneys on a dodgy connection .H Henri, Thank you for your input, I have seen your name in many places and know your reputation. My plan is to go back to the original Piaggio stator from 1992 which I removed early on, not knowing that it was perfectly good. It does need rewiring , though. If the problem persists I will start the hunt. I do not relish taking out the ignition switch. I will need to get the multimeter out. Thanks also to jbcollier. Regards, Bodger |
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Post by jbcollier on Oct 5, 2023 11:43:52 GMT
If you can stop the engine by jumping a wire from the CDI to ground, then your stator is fine. Leave it alone!
There are two green wire connections at the CDI. Do you have two green wires there? Or, only one?
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Post by oldbodger on Oct 5, 2023 13:38:07 GMT
If you can stop the engine by jumping a wire from the CDI to ground, then your stator is fine. Leave it alone! There are two green wire connections at the CDI. Do you have two green wires there? Or, only one? Just one. |
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Post by henri on Oct 5, 2023 15:47:59 GMT
you should have a 6 wire stator on then , 3 to the cdi ,white-earth,red pickup/trigger an a green power from lt coil wire . the 3 to loom are black-earth,blue-power to reg an another green to the ignition switch . thats on a 6 pole 12 volt stator .
if you have a 3/4 pole or 6 pole mixed 6 volt an 12 it gets more complicated ,an theres 7 or 8 wires from stator .https://scooterhelp.com/electrics/pages/vespa.pk.html . all wiring diagrams are here .
switch is behind the horncast ,held on by 2 screws in glove box an one behind the clip in piaggio badge . then you'll see the ignition switch ,round black thing on back of steering lock . its held in place with a small allen head grub screw ,an has 2 wires ,green from stator an black to earth .H
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Post by henri on Oct 5, 2023 15:48:35 GMT
1st off ,ive had nothing but trouble with bgm stators on smallframes ,so refuse to fit them now .the lost spark is most likely a failed pickup ,the little black box with a red wire to it . the ignition switch not working could be a few things ,one is theres 2 ways the low tension coil on stator is earthed out by ignition to kill the spark . one way is a green wire from the cdi spare connection to switch ,other is a green wire direct from lt coil on stator to switch . but as above its more likely a bad connection on junction box ,broken green wire in loom ,or the switch itself .an as the problem comes an goes with stator swaps my moneys on a dodgy connection .H Henri, Thank you for your input, I have seen your name in many places and know your reputation. My plan is to go back to the original Piaggio stator from 1992 which I removed early on, not knowing that it was perfectly good. It does need rewiring , though. If the problem persists I will start the hunt. I do not relish taking out the ignition switch. I will need to get the multimeter out. Thanks also to jbcollier. Regards, Bodger |
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Post by henri on Oct 5, 2023 15:50:52 GMT
youve seen my name in many places an know my rep . well if you mean the graffiti in my local pub bogs , its all in my wifes an best mates handwriting ,strangely using the same pen . an also mostly true if slightly exaggerated . H
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Post by oldbodger on Oct 6, 2023 13:06:36 GMT
youve seen my name in many places an know my rep . well if you mean the graffiti in my local pub bogs , its all in my wifes an best mates handwriting ,strangely using the same pen . an also mostly true if slightly exaggerated . H I take it the writing in the bogs refers to your prowess in skills unrelated to Vespas. |
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Post by oldbodger on Oct 10, 2023 9:40:07 GMT
If you are unable to shut off the scoot, it is not the stator. All the ignition key does to shut the engine off is to connect the ignition primary circuit to ground. So, bad contacts in the ignition switch, ignition switch has no connection to ground, ignition switch has no connection to the primary circuit. Do you have electronic ignition or points? If electronic ignition, does the "box" have the following connections? White Red Green Green Greetings, After my initial reluctance to believe that the problem was not related to the stator I have started to look elsewhere for the electrical gremlin. Yesterday I removed the horn cover and located the ignition switch where the connections to the green and black wires are. I unplugged the green wire from the CDI and used the multimeter to check the resistance from the green wire on the ignition switch to the end of the green wire on the CDI: With ignition off: 423 With the ignition switched on: 1 As I have said, I know little about electricity, but to me this indicates that the ignition switch is working properly. I checked all the connections to the CDI and the connector under the swingarm. Everything seems fine. Any ideas on what I should check next are welcome. Thanks, Bodger |
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Post by oldbodger on Oct 20, 2023 4:55:00 GMT
Greetings,
I wanted to explain that ultimately the problem was very simple. After changing the ignition and CDI their was no improvement.
I then checked the green wire from the ignition switch to the female socket on the 3 pronged plug connector at the swing arm.There was continuity with the ignition on, and none with the ignition off. There was also ~500 Ohms resistance between the prong for the green wire on the male side of the 3 pronged plug connector at the swing arm and ground, isolating the problem to the plug connector.
It turns out that the plug did not have a good connection.It appeared to be plugged in but was very sensitive to any movement. It seems that the connection is poor and I am able to rotate the plug connector, which should not be the case obviously. Because of the groove on one side of the plug which slides into a ridge on the other side of the plug and the 3 prongs connected together it should not rotate.
I still havent solved that problem but I am very relieved that it is a simple one.
It also explains why the ignition key would work temporarily when I replaced the stator twice in the past (thinking that it was faulty). Each time I replaced the stator I would connect the plugs together and the ignition switch would work temporarily.
Thank you for the help.
Proving that I once again lived up to my moniker,
The Old Bodger
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Post by jonnysnatchsniffer on Nov 4, 2023 18:48:23 GMT
i was gonna say if all leccy conections are good then you have pre ignition from a too hot plug or way over advanced or retarded ignition
you can tin the male connectors with solder which should give you a tighter fit
or if a real bodger like me cut the blocks off ant solder the wires together or just cut the problem one an use insulated spade or bullet crimps
or an even more bodge is twist the wires together and wrap them in insulation tape, works a treat
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