movin64's ape' engine

[henri]

we like a challenge here at "chez henri" ,just not one usually as ugly as this duckling . 1968 175cc ape' engine an tinware that landed on the slab , a sort of bastard son of a gs160 engine an the leftovers from baked bean can factory .about the ugliest piaggio lump ever ,an def the heaviest .IMG_0199 by henri briggs, on Flickr    .
so up on the bench an a rapid weight loss diet , off with flywheel , which is a similar style to lambrettas just with fins about 4" long .off with selector box ,a similar design to large frames ,an off with the massive flywheel surround .IMG_0201 by henri briggs, on Flickr   .
turn the engine over ,off with "deep dish" clutch cover to uncover this little beastie ,a pretty ugly badboy if ever i saw one . of course its a "self extracting " clutch , an i havent got the right circlip ,so a quick order to simply bearings an move on . finding info an tech drawings for these is pretty hard ,but from what i'm seeing its just on a straight shaft ,not on a taper like gs160/ss180 ones are .IMG_0202 by henri briggs, on Flickr   .
so off with barrel an head , need to remove a stud to get piston pin out an more lammyness .IMG_0203 by henri briggs, on Flickr   .
16mm pin/little end ,an lambretta style transfers ?IMG_0204 by henri briggs, on Flickr    .
then carry on , with the usual method on a engine youve never worked on before ,undo everything obvious ,look for trick bolts , look even harder for trick bolts . discover behind a bearing retaining ring an tin cover the input shaft is held into flyside with a nut .undo that , heat an move the locating dowel at rear of engine , an cases come apart ,to reveal a lambretta style flyside bearing . 2 seals an a 2 piece roller bearing ,rest of internals look pretty standard large frame with some twists .IMG_0205 by henri briggs, on Flickr   . 
output shafts longer an just splined on the end an just held into bearing with a circlip .loose gears slightly different an totally different ratios ,but use a standard cruciform .an thats were it stops til clutch circlip turns up,hopefully today .H

[movin64]

Thanks for all your hard work and help with this 👍👍

[henri]

well , circlip arrived , an the usual story with self extracting stuff ,it dont extract .so out with a 3 leg puller an wedge the legs in with screwdrivers ,an off pops the clutch .IMG_0206 by henri briggs, on Flickr .
an interesting collection of shims ,dished washers ,spacers an bushes behind it .IMG_0207 by henri briggs, on Flickr .
an in 2 shakes of a lambs tail out comes the crank , meaty bugger ,but then i guess it has to be to get the inertia to not be stalled .IMG_0208 by henri briggs, on Flickr .
an split the clutch to be surprised its a single plate job , meaty bugger tho ,the base plates about 10mm thick ,an top plates 5mm .IMG_0209 by henri briggs, on Flickr .
all thats left now is to work out how to remove input shaft ,an make a note of sizes and types of bearings an seals . then go an hunt out were an order them ,dont wait up i think i might be gone some time .H

[spot66]

Do all Ape engines look like that or is it because it's a 175 that it's a bit meatier? Seen Ape's used for a multiple of jobs and always had the same thought "if it breaks down it'll be bugger to push home" Remember a guy at the I.O.W.years ago who had a full coffee barrista kit installed. Suppose if he broke down he'd have a caffeine fix for the big push home.

[movin64]

The more modern ape has an engine at the back that's more like a smallframe engine, mine is a 1967 model and engine is a lot beefier and located in the cab. They are fairly easy to push around, but wouldn't want to push it very far

[henri]

IMG_0243 by henri briggs, on Flickr .
had my welder fired up today , so a quick washer welded over the split in head cowl .
rest of my ape' "fun" has been wading through italian websites trying to source parts for the build .H

[henri]

IMG_0334 by henri briggs, on Flickr .
an here we have the stator from hell . been totally bodged in the past ,wires moved an re-joined by that tried an tested method ,twist them together an tape them up . might of worked if the dumbass had scraped back the shellac insulation on coil windings ,before twisting wires round it .think they were attempting to gain more power from the stator by using earths as power feeds too .like the lt coil on 50 speshes earth also being the brake light feed .IMG_0335 by henri briggs, on Flickr .
an this is the wiring diagram ive got to work from ,to try an suss out whats what ,tiny an fuzzy an in italian ,fun eh . going to be a lot of printer ink used blowing it up in sections so i can draw a proper diagram . an actually more easily understand whats what an why .H

[madmax]

This might help a bit:

Giallo = yellow
Verde = green
Bianco = white
Nero = black
Blu = blue
Marrone = brown
Rosso = red
Grigio = grey
Viola = purple

[henri]

thanks max , ive a few bits of paper around with translations written on , but there from google-mangle so not trustworthy .H

[henri]

HUZZAH , the bits for engines are here , an i can make a start .IMG_0412 by henri briggs, on Flickr .
bearings an seals in first IMG_0414 by henri briggs, on Flickr .
then kicker/handstart quadrant an re-bound rubbers .IMG_0415 by henri briggs, on Flickr .
typically the rubbers are 2 sizes an handed , the replacements whilst handed were both the wider size? . an oversize at that too ,so a few minutes with a scalpel was needed to get them too fit .H

[henri]

then its replace cruciform, a standard large frame one ,put 2 case studs back in then insert input shaft/tree ,an put output shaft in . then cases trial fitted together to draw the crank in .IMG_0416 by henri briggs, on Flickr .
an thats as far as i'm getting this week on this engine ,not happy about the inner flyside seal so going to re-do it ,have ordered another one .H

[henri]

finally new seal arrived from germany so could crack on .IMG_0549 by henri briggs, on Flickr .
an get cases together ,bit fiddly compared to others ,an my 1st ape' engine ,but managed it in the end.H

[henri]

clutch day today IMG_0558 by henri briggs, on Flickr .
about the ugliest looking piaggio clutch ever .IMG_0564 by henri briggs, on Flickr .
one clutch i'm happy to hide behind a cover IMG_0567 by henri briggs, on Flickr .
an whilst still in the mood ,got the top end on .IMG_0573 by henri briggs, on Flickr .
just the flywheel surround an stator&fly to fit now .H

[henri]

1 bolt ,just one small bolt , piaggio why did you choose M9x 1.5 or 1.75 as a thread size .IMG_0577 by henri briggs, on Flickr .
totally unobtainable ,so after a hour trying to reclaim the old damaged one gave up. an altered a m8 high tensile button head allen bolt to fit .its to clamp up the hand starting pawl onto the splined shaft .then i got on with stator repairs ,repairing the cracked end pieces on 2 coils an starting to re-wire .IMG_0578 by henri briggs, on Flickr .
then more fun , altering a set of points so they will fit nxt to the fatter lighting coils ,the fun just never stops with this one .H

[tzsteve]

H mate i have nought m9x1 before i used one on my tzr brake calliper to swing arm anchor, i bought a few from fleabay they are obtainable

[henri]

Mar 29, 2022 9:38:10 GMT tzsteve said:

H mate i have nought m9x1 before i used one on my tzr brake calliper to swing arm anchor, i bought a few from fleabay they are obtainable

i can get Mx1 an Mx1.25 , damm expensive tho , but this is a M9 coarse thread ,an i cant find them anywhere ,an ive looked hard . H

[henri]

finally done , usually re-wire a stators 30-40 minutes for 1st one ,with the gear laid out nxt ones 20-25 minutes .think i'm about 6 hours into this one ,not including the research to find out how too .IMG_0579 by henri briggs, on Flickr .
last coil was triple wound ,an had a internal fault/short from damage from clumsy handling in the past .so unwind the outer winding enough to tease apart the 2 inner windings ,re insulate .then shrink wrap damaged outer winding to insulate it as i'd run out of laquer/shellac by then ,an rewind .
then solder up ,a job not made easier by wifes/daughters ferrets stealing an hiding my reel of silver solder ,had to resort to bits of solder used to squish check in the past .
then its fit an time up .IMG_0580 by henri briggs, on Flickr .
by my usual cheating method ,remove source coil an condensor from points an run in a jumper wire ,connect meter to jumper on audible ohms .then when points open bleep stops ,no watching for a meter flicker or bulb dimming a definite sign .
get it all together ,then remember fan surround needs to go on before flywheel,so fly off ,surround on ,fly back on an engines done .H