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Post by chippy on Dec 3, 2021 5:33:45 GMT
Not really sure about the overall working condition of my Stator, but I see a lot of the wiring insulation is brittle and flaking.
Are there any reasonable after-market replacements available for these early small frames?
Is it possible to easily convert to external coil on these models?
Or am I better to just repair the bad wiring, change points/condenser and hope for the best?
Just trying to weigh my options.
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Post by tzsteve on Dec 4, 2021 19:22:37 GMT
A few on here can repair stators , a couple here will have experience of fitting other stators such as the pk 12 volt electronic ignition types, if you are willing to spend the extra cash you could go with the vmc / avotechnica / lightweight type of flywheel but you may need to do some rewiring and fitting of other switches etc but the results are excellent
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Post by henri on Dec 5, 2021 10:17:21 GMT
as steve said ,i for one repair stators a lot ,with a internal coil stator the problems are ,finding a decent replacement LT/HT coil if your ones shot . there not cheap either ,£60-70 +postage .if it looks discoulored/darkened or even black its probably burnt out and needs replacing .to switch to a external ht coils not hard an your stator can be converted by just swapping the lt/ht coil for just LT one an mounting a external HT coil .if memory serves the smalldoor engines ive had ,had the mounting points on them but undrilled ,there at about 10/11 oclock on flywheel side .1 advantage of staying points is re-using your flywheel if its still magnetized enough .smalldoor cases are different to others in size of flywheel surround ,an take a smaller flywheel an particular flywheel cover than other smallframes .
if your flys de-magnetized with age thats a problem ,i only know of one guy with a working vespa flywheel re-magnetizer ,lambrettas theres a few around ,but this guys in essex an wont do postage .
as tz said there is the option of going modern an upgrading to electronic ,but that has its own troubles ,your crank will be whats known as "small taper" an finding decent quality small taper flys is getting hard .mostly i resort to getting a large taper fly an swapping the centre to be a small taper type .an because of size differences flywheel needs to be machined/lightened or cases altered on the flywheel surround or it rubs .
with the vmc/avotechnica/etc systems the flys are already smaller/lighter ,an available as small taper from new .but with any electronic kit your flycover will need to be spaced out by about 5mm or it will be rubbed .easy on later engines as a pk cover fits or theres spacers available ,but ive not seen smalldoor cover spacers sold .H
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Post by chippy on Dec 7, 2021 3:19:58 GMT
as steve said ,i for one repair stators a lot ,with a internal coil stator the problems are ,finding a decent replacement LT/HT coil if your ones shot . there not cheap either ,£60-70 +postage .if it looks discoulored/darkened or even black its probably burnt out and needs replacing .to switch to a external ht coils not hard an your stator can be converted by just swapping the lt/ht coil for just LT one an mounting a external HT coil .if memory serves the smalldoor engines ive had ,had the mounting points on them but undrilled ,there at about 10/11 oclock on flywheel side .1 advantage of staying points is re-using your flywheel if its still magnetized enough .smalldoor cases are different to others in size of flywheel surround ,an take a smaller flywheel an particular flywheel cover than other smallframes . if your flys de-magnetized with age thats a problem ,i only know of one guy with a working vespa flywheel re-magnetizer ,lambrettas theres a few around ,but this guys in essex an wont do postage . as tz said there is the option of going modern an upgrading to electronic ,but that has its own troubles ,your crank will be whats known as "small taper" an finding decent quality small taper flys is getting hard .mostly i resort to getting a large taper fly an swapping the centre to be a small taper type .an because of size differences flywheel needs to be machined/lightened or cases altered on the flywheel surround or it rubs . with the vmc/avotechnica/etc systems the flys are already smaller/lighter ,an available as small taper from new .but with any electronic kit your flycover will need to be spaced out by about 5mm or it will be rubbed .easy on later engines as a pk cover fits or theres spacers available ,but ive not seen smalldoor cover spacers sold .H Thanks for all that info Henri, good stuff!
The scooter's been sitting in my shed for the past 30 years, and I didn't even think to check to see if it still made any spark before I started tearing everything apart, so not sure whether the HT coil is shot or not.
The wiring looks pretty bad and brittle, so at minimum needs attention.
The factory mounting points you mentioned for external coil are there, and have little rubber plugs in them.
I don't really want to get into the hassle and expense of changing flywheels/going electronic etc., and I kinda prefer the points just for the old school nostalgia if that makes sense.
So if I'm understanding you correctly, I could replace the HT coil with a normal lighting coil as the feeder, which would then power an external coil such as this one?
How much rewiring does that involve?
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Post by henri on Dec 7, 2021 7:23:23 GMT
if your using scooterwest i'm guessing your one of are "colonial cousins" other side of the pond then .ive been told "scooter mercato" is a better usa shop than scooterwest .an 10 minutes trawling scooterwests site an i was seeing listed items i recognised the descriptions on , just copy&pasted repeats of indian parts suppliers on ebay .often listed as fitting many different models ,an not correct .
you need to replace the internal HT coil with a LT coil ,a lighting coil wont be supplying enough voltage .an the only wiring needed is 1 wire,usually coded red from the junction box to the HT coil .H
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hrvespa
ETS
1981 50 special, 1977 primavera, 1964 GL 150, 1975 125 TS (early P200 engine)
Posts: 166
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Post by hrvespa on Dec 7, 2021 7:25:21 GMT
Think i have a v90 stator with internal coil in box of spares. If ya get stuck let me know. I can rewire it too
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Post by chippy on Dec 8, 2021 2:52:48 GMT
if your using scooterwest i'm guessing your one of are "colonial cousins" other side of the pond then .ive been told "scooter mercato" is a better usa shop than scooterwest .an 10 minutes trawling scooterwests site an i was seeing listed items i recognised the descriptions on , just copy&pasted repeats of indian parts suppliers on ebay .often listed as fitting many different models ,an not correct . you need to replace the internal HT coil with a LT coil ,a lighting coil wont be supplying enough voltage .an the only wiring needed is 1 wire,usually coded red from the junction box to the HT coil .H Thanks henri,
I think I'm beginning to understand. I had originally thought that LT meant "lighting" coil.
Sounds like that might be the best way to go, since I'd likely have to replace my original HT coil anyway. It looks kinda ratty. see below
Yes, I'm one of those Colonial cousins across the big pond so thanks for the heads-up on our scooter parts suppliers over here.
I've been browsing both Scooter West and Scooter Mercato and it seems that Scooter Mercato has a lot more vintage parts and in-stock inventory with better shipping rates too.
sorry thought these would show up as pics here, but it's just links to pics that look tiny and hardly viewable. gotta do some more experimenting on that front ... better have another beer |
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Post by chippy on Dec 8, 2021 3:03:35 GMT
Think i have a v90 stator with internal coil in box of spares. If ya get stuck let me know. I can rewire it too Thanks Hr, I'll keep that in mind!
Are you in the US by any chance?
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Post by chippy on Dec 8, 2021 3:28:14 GMT
On the subject of various parts suppliers, there's one particular part that I'll eventually need to get since mine's missing (the engine door panel)
But I see a MAJOR difference in price on this item from various suppliers. Mercato list it for like $42.00(no brand name mentioned)and Scooter West list it for $129.00!(Mauro Pascoli brand)
Just from the product pics they look exactly the same,(gray primer), with the latch included etc.
I realize both panels are aftermarket, but are there some that are "better quality" than others that would justify the price difference? Is Mauro Pascoli a recognized brand of better quality?
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Post by henri on Dec 8, 2021 7:07:04 GMT
pascoli's a recognised brand ,usually good quality ,an the cheaper engine doors are usually very thin metal an poor fits ,needing a lot of adjustments to fit .
but again as yours is a smalldoor model its a particular door needed ,so worth ringing an checking its the right one before buying .an theres a further complication with smalldoors ,theres 2 doors .
earliest ones the door has 2 pins that come of at a angle an slide into holes on the frame to hold the door in place .then around 64 ,it switched to 2 welded on hinge pins on the frame an a loop an hook on the door that fit on pins to make a hinge .the hinge pins are round an have nylon bushes that slide onto them ,but large door models the pins are flat bars .an piaggio/vespa have a nasty habit of mixing an matching just as models change ,using up old stock or switching new designs to last of old model productions .makes it impossible to say exactly when styles/fittings change ,unlike other makes like say lambretta or japanese/british bikes were its by a exact frame/engine number .H
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hrvespa
ETS
1981 50 special, 1977 primavera, 1964 GL 150, 1975 125 TS (early P200 engine)
Posts: 166
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Post by hrvespa on Dec 8, 2021 9:31:29 GMT
Think i have a v90 stator with internal coil in box of spares. If ya get stuck let me know. I can rewire it too Thanks Hr, I'll keep that in mind!
Are you in the US by any chance?
Sadly not. UK |
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Post by chippy on Dec 9, 2021 2:06:00 GMT
pascoli's a recognised brand ,usually good quality ,an the cheaper engine doors are usually very thin metal an poor fits ,needing a lot of adjustments to fit . but again as yours is a smalldoor model its a particular door needed ,so worth ringing an checking its the right one before buying .an theres a further complication with smalldoors ,theres 2 doors . earliest ones the door has 2 pins that come of at a angle an slide into holes on the frame to hold the door in place .then around 64 ,it switched to 2 welded on hinge pins on the frame an a loop an hook on the door that fit on pins to make a hinge .the hinge pins are round an have nylon bushes that slide onto them ,but large door models the pins are flat bars .an piaggio/vespa have a nasty habit of mixing an matching just as models change ,using up old stock or switching new designs to last of old model productions .makes it impossible to say exactly when styles/fittings change ,unlike other makes like say lambretta or japanese/british bikes were its by a exact frame/engine number .H Thanks, that's good to know!
Mine is the type with the 2 pins at a downward angle that slide into holes.
The description on the Pascoli one says it's for the early small door, but I will definitely call to verify it's the right type before ordering, but I need to finish getting my engine sorted out before I worry about a door to cover it up. (just looking ahead)
Those little rubber bumpers that the door sits against - all of mine are missing. Looking at the parts diagram it seems there are 2 at the top and 2 at the bottom but they are different part numbers. I found the lower ones on Mercato #98669, but unable to locate the upper ones #70592.
I'm curious what the difference is, and if the lower type could also be used at the top?
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Post by henri on Dec 9, 2021 7:01:50 GMT
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Post by chippy on Dec 10, 2021 2:41:44 GMT
Oh now I see the difference.
So if need be, I could trim 4mm off the larger ones and make them work.
That's great, thanks Henri!
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