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Post by timelord on Apr 4, 2008 13:03:37 GMT
i cant find any electronic ignition kits for a primavera? all i can find is the electronic stator from beedspeed, what else do i need for this to work? i know i need a flywheel, anything else? 12v bulbs? 12v horn?
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Post by tony on Apr 4, 2008 13:26:31 GMT
is it the small cone crank you have? If so an early pk50 flywheel fits.. If you have changed the crank to pk xl then you can use variatronic, parma and others(hp4)
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Post by timelord on Apr 4, 2008 13:38:49 GMT
i think its small nose, if i take a picture can you identify it as im not sure on the differance?
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Post by hank on Apr 4, 2008 14:00:15 GMT
i thought this had been covered a while back - try searching the forum.
on the 'other' small frames forum (the one which frowns on full frontal nudity ;D) someone posted pretty comprehensive details of what you needed inc. any wiring/switch changes - might have been john collier. this was going the pk flywheel/stator route, rather than parma, etc.
nope, hang on, it was to actually convert your existing stator:
Converting a stator from points to CDi
> Date: February 28, 2004 5:33:36 PM MST (CA)
>
> It requires a little mechanical knowledge and a few tools to convert a
> stator from points/separate coil ignition to an ET3 type CDi system.
> The only special parts required are a pick up and a source coil. The
> rest can be obtained from a good hardware store.
>
> Here are the parts needed:
>
> - pick up $18US
> - source coil $22US (can be VERY hard to find)
> - 24" lengths of 16G red wire, white wire and two 24" lengths of green
> wire
> - (4) female spade type wire connectors
> - small length of heat shrink that fits over above connectors
> - small length of heat shrink that fits over wire to wire soldered
> joints
> - length of protective sheath
> - 1/2" long #10 x 32 machine screw
> - #10 vibration proof lock washer
> - 1/2" long #6 x 32 machine screw
> - blue Loctite
> - spirits, solvent or degreaser of some kind
>
> Tools required:
>
> - Flat screwdriver and a driver to suit purchased screws
> - #10 x 32 tap
> - #6 x 32 tap
> - tap oil and tap holder
> - drill and drill bits
> - razor
> - hammer
> - punches
> - soldering gun and solder (60/40 rosen core)
>
> Let's start with the pick up first:
>
> First cut the green wire right at the condenser and then remove the
> points and condenser. Carefully drill out the rivet head under the
> points and push out the rivet as this is where the locating pin for the
> pick up goes. Tap this hole all the way with the #6 x 32 tap. Start
> from the back (soft aluminium) and go very slowly when you hit the
> metal plates -- lots of lube please! Use a 1/8" drill bit from the back
> of the stator to remove the threads in the aluminium (stop when you hit
> the metal plates). Clean it all out with your degreaser. Put a dab of
> blue Loctite on the 1/2" 6 x 32 screw and insert it from the bottom of
> the stator through the drilled out aluminium plate and into the threads
> you made in the metal plates. Tighten it down but do not strip the new
> threads. The Loctite will keep it from loosening.
>
> Now use a small punch and tap down the locating pin on the pick up --
> in small steps -- until it just drops into the small hole where you did
> all the above work. Need I say gently please? Use the #10 x 32 tap and
> tap lube to thread the hole where the pick up mounting screw goes. It
> is only the very top plate you are threading so you do not have to go
> far. Clean the new threads with spirits. Now fit the pick up and secure
> it with the 1/2 " #10 x 32 screw and the vibration proof lock washer. I
> also added a dab of Loctite just to be sure.
>
> The pick up is mounted.
>
> Now the source coil...
>
> Cut the green wire off where it attaches to the old source coil which
> is immediately to the left of the old points/new pick up. Carefully pry
> up the folded metal tab at the back of the old source coil. Lift off
> the metal washer, then the fiber washer and then gently pry off the old
> source coil . Use the razor to cut the top and bottom plastic flanges
> off the old source coil. Trim the cut edges so they are flat and cut
> the large bottom one so that when it is against the bottom of the new
> source coil the new coil's wires are free -- sort of G shaped. Slip
> the old upper flange first and then the trimmed old lower flange --
> carefully pry wires out of the way. Now slip on the new source coil.
> The wires are to the "outer" side of stator and toward the center of
> the stator with the new source coil supported by the cut off plastic
> flanges from the old source coil. The cut out portion should allow the
> wires to be free. Everything OK? Slip on the fiber washer and the metal
> retainer and push the metal tab back down to hold the new source coil
> in place. GENTLY use a punch to get it all the way flat again.
>
> The source coil is mounted.
>
> Wiring is very straight forward. Connect the ground terminal of the
> pick up, the bare wire of the new source coil and the new white wire to
> the ground of the stator plate using short sections of the old source
> coil's wire. Connect the green wire from the pick up to the new green
> wire. Connect the new red wire to the red/orange wire from the new
> source coil. Pull the old green wire out of the stator plate and attach
> a length of new green wire to it. Use solder and heat shrink where
> appropriate and make sure there are NO loose wires to catch on anything
> -- run them tight like the other wires to the stator are. Run the red,
> white and two green wires in a protective sheath to the CDi unit. Use
> solder and heat shrink tube to attach the connectors.
>
> That is that.
>
> SO should you do all this work? Maybe. If you already have the tools,
> or have access to the tools, AND you can find a source coil, AND you
> can make sense of the above description, then go for it. If you are not
> very electrically minded or a bit of a klutz or have no tools, just buy
> a new stator plate. PK ones run about $125US or so.
>
> John Collier
> -------------------------------------------------
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Post by smallyshane on Apr 4, 2008 14:28:43 GMT
Sounds good Hank, Does this make it 12v??? Isn't Primmy points type ignition 6v? ET3 is electronic 6v and so wouldn't require replacing bulbs etc surely.... There is this on german epay cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=150231394674&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=005It has been lightened by the sounds of it (not balanced) but comes with the stator too... Would be tempted myself but a bit short on spare brass at the mo!!! it looks like its for the large cone type crank too which wouldn't be the standard on an ET3 and assuming a primmy either!!! I have one of each crank knocking around so can check against them if you put the pics up... I think the cone length is longer and fatter on the large cone but scooter help will explain all that if you fancy a look on there.. Good luck with it though mate. |
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Post by hank on Apr 4, 2008 14:33:43 GMT
i'd guess it just makes it 6v electronic, like an et3. if i had a points engine, i'd prob go pk stator & flywheel - its easier! also, 12v horn & rear brake switch, amendments to loom, 12v bulbs, not sure bout light switch, suspect different one?
nb. that german ebayer doesn't take paypal and its posting to germany only.
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Post by smallyshane on Apr 4, 2008 14:42:30 GMT
Ooops, sorry, hadn't noticed that...... Still may be worth mailing the guy though if the price stays around what it is!!
Would agree with you on the PK stator and fly though hank, its just finding the damn things for reasonable money!!!
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Post by jonnysnatchsniffer on Apr 4, 2008 16:22:27 GMT
why do you need a different light switch for 12 volts ?
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Post by hank on Apr 4, 2008 16:36:34 GMT
why do you need a different light switch for 12 volts ? if you look on sip or similar, there are 6v & 12v light switches for the same models. i don't know that much about electrics but is there an additional wire for the regulator? |
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Post by breezer on Apr 4, 2008 18:26:07 GMT
Don't need to change the horn. 6v horn will work on 12v.
AC and DC make the real difference when it comes to the horn
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Post by jonnysnatchsniffer on Apr 4, 2008 20:34:23 GMT
thats what i mean, regulated 12v will work a 6v horn good, i know i need to change the brake switch, ive had pk engines in v90s before without new looms and switches so i just wonder why change stuff,
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Post by breezer on Apr 4, 2008 21:11:52 GMT
No idea, and I'ver never heard or read any reasoning behind changing th switches, although I have heard and read that it's necessary.
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Post by tony on Apr 4, 2008 23:23:53 GMT
the point system stator works on a 'break earth circuit' to let the current flow.. the reg 12v system works on a 'make live circuit' idea.
So you have to change handlebar switch and brake light switch when converting to 12v electronic systems.
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Post by breezer on Apr 5, 2008 6:57:03 GMT
AH! Cheers Tony...
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Post by jonnysnatchsniffer on Apr 5, 2008 14:01:10 GMT
the point system stator works on a 'break earth circuit' to let the current flow.. the reg 12v system works on a 'make live circuit' idea. So you have to change handlebar switch and brake light switch when converting to 12v electronic systems. i fully understand that but being a sparky by trade it is a flawed concept as all switches must have an open and closed position to work ie a common and open and closed so if you fuck about with the wires on the switch and disconnect the earth to said switch when you switch it on it will send a live to the bulb, and the high and low beam should work as before, but then as you say as the switch is say push to break the circuit the horn woud not work, and as my switch is fucked anyway i might aswell get the right one to begin with and make meself a loom to meet my own needs |
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Post by tony on Apr 5, 2008 17:50:17 GMT
Some (brake light i believe)work off the negative side of the coil.. and some of the positive.. it gets all confusing..
The px system i understand and always convert to.
The horn switch earths through the casing of the switch so you can't simply re wire it. Beedspeed to a nice conversion switch that looks the same.
Also how about this... some early 50's ran the brake light off the same coil used to power the ignition.. bulb blows and you stop..or so i remember anyway! ;D
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Post by jonnysnatchsniffer on Apr 6, 2008 7:47:07 GMT
yeah i had a 50 spech like that it did my head in
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