65’ vma1t SoCal style w/ 155cc parmakit 144 and 54 crank

[harleyracer59]

So I figured out how to post pics. Lol. 
  Here’s some pics of my 65’ vma1t
i had a malossi mkII A 24 mikuni a lightened flywheel and 2003 sip evo exhaust.  Only mods to the cylinder was I 2 of the 3 boost ports to the direct intake.  Ran great for 6-8 months then I snapped the crank on the flywheel side.  I had play in the bearing and kept procrastinating the tear down to fix it. 
   For the rebuild I went all out. 60mm parmakit 144 w-force red devil cylinder. Bmg 54 stroke crank w/ 105 connecting rod.  29-68 drt straight cut gears and reinforced basket. Fabbri 9 disc clutch fb36.  Polini shift cross.  stock gears. And a lectron 38mm carb. Parmakit ignition with 1.5kg flywheel. Same sip evo exhaust except I made a new 36mm head pipe.  So it matches up to my exhaust port.   .28 base gasket and .84mm head spacer to get 1.1mm squish.   
my port timings are 187 exhaust. 130 transfers. 117 boost ports.  
  I hand cut the cases to fit the crank and cut the transfer ports as close as I could get them without breaking through the walls.  
   I’m having 1 hell of a time with this ignition. I have tdc marked on flywheel.  It’s 180* from the key way.  I think the timing mark is about 85* past tdc.  I can’t find any references to this stator plate. It looks different from all I’ve seen. To get the 3 mounting screws something to grab. The best I think I get the timing to is somewhere around 30ish* btdc.  I dong know for sure because I can start it to put a timing light on it to figure out if I have all the correct points figured out.  
    Any info or advise on this stator or my build is welcome. I’m so close to getting it running again can’t wait.  

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[harleyracer59]

Here’s my stator plate and markings in white

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[harleyracer59]

Back together with new shorter shocks and home made anti dive bracket. Made from a Harley sportster motor mount. 
  Cooling shroud is off till I can warm it up and retorque the head.  

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[harleyracer59]

Here’s some of the work I did to the cases. 

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[rhys]

Not sure what's happened to your casing but the sealing land around your crank looks a bit thin by the Christmas tree.
Have you pressure tested the engine when you assembled it ?

[harleyracer59]

Jan 4, 2021 12:46:04 GMT rhys said:

Not sure what's happened to your casing but the sealing land around your crank looks a bit thin by the Christmas tree.
Have you pressure tested the engine when you assembled it ?

It’s just the angle of the picture. But yes. I have pressure tested it and it is good. No crank case leaks and compression is good as well. I had to clearance the crake case for the stroker crank. But there’s still plenty of meat there to seal. I’m just having issues with this stator. I can’t get it to mount by the 3 fastening screws where I think the firing coil needs to be. And it doesn’t seem secure with only 2 screws holding it. Here’s some better pics of the Christmas tree area you were concerned with.

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[harleyracer59]

Just found a closer pic of the area after the clearancing for the crankshaft. Here’s what the old crank looked like when I disassembled the engine for this build.  It’s fixable right?  Lol

   also,   my parmakit misdirection paper has no mention of timing.   any suggestions?   i was aiming for 22-24 initial.  but with this mounting situation, closest i can get is like 35* btdc or 5ish* atdc.   neither of those are gonna work.   
  ive read these ignitions fire 2x per rotation. is this true?   if so, can i rotate the plate 180*?   i might be able to it at a better degree?    where are the fire marks on these stators?  my timing light isnt strobing with this coil for some reason.  at least not at kick start speeds. i verifide my timing gun is working on another car last night.   any ideas?  

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[harleyracer59]

Where should the hall sensor to fire the coil be placed?   I see one that’s at 7 o clock found another couple pics that have it between 12 and 2 o clock and another pic it’s at 4 o clock?   How the hell can all these positions work??  Wtf?!?

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[rhys]

Sorry I have a Pinasco Fly tech on mine . It looks like you need to rotate it 180 deg but maybe someone with a Parmakit ignition can send you a photo and help you out.
I would set it at 20 deg with a strobe first and see how it goes temperature wise before moving it forward to 24 .

[harleyracer59]

Jan 5, 2021 10:46:37 GMT rhys said:

Sorry I have a Pinasco Fly tech on mine . It looks like you need to rotate it 180 deg but maybe someone with a Parmakit ignition can send you a photo and help you out.
I would set it at 20 deg with a strobe first and see how it goes temperature wise before moving it forward to 24 .

 ive tried it 180 around too.  havent even gotten it to pop or show any signs of life yet.  im about to swap out this lectron carb for a mikuni just to rule out carburetion.  ive never ran one of these variable jet carbs though. but ive squirted gas through the carb with the throttle open but i havent gotten even a puff of smoke out of it yet. ive pressure tested this engine and it passed. ive verified that it has acceptable compression,  i have put an in line spark tester and verified there is spark.  my timing light wont strobe at the low rpm at kick over.  i verified the light works on a customers car yet i get nothing on my parmakit coil.  ive also with the plug out touching the engine kicked it over and got blue spark at the plug.  i marked tdc using a piston stop. so i know im good there too.  when i do figure out where the fire coil should be located i will try 20* in the beginning. thank you for that recommendation.  and i didnt mention it yet but i have a     SIP 2.0 rev counter/speedometer. it has a built in temp gauge . which i have hooked up.  and will monitor the temp reading to check that it can slowly bump further or not.    
   just to give a bit of my background, this isnt my first vespa build. i put the malossi cylinder on this engine that was on it till the crank snapped..   ive also restored and rebuilt a customers 79 px125.  and i have owned at least 20 honda 2 stroke scooters. most of which i modified, bbk, stuffy cranks, ive built a few expansion chambered exhausts for them too.  i currently have 8 hondas, 4 harleys (3 of which ive built or restored/rebuilt from the frames up), also have 5 classic chevys.  ive been a mechanic for 23 years. first job at 16 was a a firestone tires. work as a fleet and field mechanic for 12 years in the oil fields till i opened my own shop 9 years ago.  which is still open currently.  so im very mechanically proficient and mechanically inclined.   in other words this aint my first rodeo. lol  i know this forum gets a fair amount of newbs looking for direction.  that have no previous mechanical knowledge.  so i can understand any technical info shared by yall.  and appreciate anyone taking time to respond to my questions.  thank you. 
  

[rhys]

I think you are more than well qualified to sort this out
Looking at my Pinasco stator the cutout in the back plate to clear the crankcase nut is next to the black coil and the black coil goes down the bottom the same as the ET3-Primavera picture you have posted. Is it a new kit for a vespa or is it off something else ?
Are you able to spin the coils 180 deg on the back plate or is there some sort of location stop to ensure it can only go on one way?

[harleyracer59]

So I got it figured it. The brand new parmakit coil that came with my stator was NFG right out the box. Luckily I had bought another parmakit coil through Treatland about a year ago to try on one of my Honda scooters. So I checked the ohms values between the 2? And when the newest coil gave different readings. I swapped it out with the other one because I knew it worked on my Honda that ran. With the plug out and a drill motor I was able strobe the timing and set the stator plate in the right spot. 20-22* btdc. Pulled the choke kicked it over. Fired first kick. Wooo! The throttle cable is a little frayed and was hanging up a little so I need to pull a new cable on it. And finish hooking up the other cables, but she’s running dammit! Now I need to see if vespatime will answer my emails and warranty this coil. The haven’t responded to my other 2 emails asking for info on this stator plate and that the new clear tail light I bought from them has cracks in it new out the package and my order was missing 2 of the 3 woodruff keys I had ordered. They were quick to respond about questions about stuff I was interested in purchasing. But are ghosting me on these post purchase emails. We shall see. For anyone that gets one of these new plates in there stator kit and can’t find any info on them for setup. Here’s where my plate is mounted and running for future reference.

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[rhys]

Glad you got it up and running. I would be interested to see how this set up goes especially how it pulls 4th with the 29/68 primary, standard gear set up and 187 deg exhaust timing.
I'm putting 29/68 in my Quattrini 60 x54 build but with a short forth and I'm not sure if it will be a bit tall for general road use with a 350x10.
I also have a FB36 in my current Polini Evo motor and had to do some fettling to get the correct separation, its now working well and handling 25 Bhp without any drag issues.
Did you use this clutch in the Malossi set up and is it working OK?

[harleyracer59]

Jan 7, 2021 10:12:24 GMT rhys said:

Glad you got it up and running. I would be interested to see how this set up goes especially how it pulls 4th with the 29/68 primary, standard gear set up and 187 deg exhaust timing.
I'm putting 29/68 in my Quattrini 60 x54 build but with a short forth and I'm not sure if it will be a bit tall for general road use with a 350x10.
I also have a FB36 in my current Polini Evo motor and had to do some fettling to get the correct separation, its now working well and handling 25 Bhp without any drag issues.
Did you use this clutch in the Malossi set up and is it working OK?

i had a 28/68 on my malossi with a 25mm mikuni w/ i believe stock clutch and a stiffer spring, 3.00x10 tire and it pulled well.  was just as fast as my buddies 4 stroke suzuki dr220.   was a little sluggish off the line till i sorted the carb jetting out.  im 5'10" and 185lbs.  i really liked the spaced out 4th.  had to ring 3rd out a little before shifting so i could stay on the pipe, but it really helped stay at traffic speed and not buzz the rpm.  i could take off faster than car traffic from a light and cruise comforably at 50+mph  
   i have a new 3.50x10 that im waiting to put on till i see how this gearing works out with the 3.00.   
  im trying to sort out this FB36 right now.  i pulled 4 of the 8 inner springs and the clutch is still hard to pull and dragging.  kicker still turns motor over with clutch pulled in.  how did you get yours sorted?  are you running all the springs or did you pull some out?  if so, was it inners or outters and how many?   
  im wondering how this pipe will do with the 36mm diameter, 15mm longer head pipe.  im wondering if the silencer outlet is gonna be too small now. 
    this lectron carb is an interesting item too.  the metering  rod is spring loaded and adjustable. and the power jet is adjustable via a screw.   theres no jets to swap.  i hope that 38mm isnt too big. they say a34-40mm carb is recommended.  what size carb are you running on your polini evo?   

[harleyracer59]

Here’s the new header mounted and the difference in size from the original head pipe.  And that 38mm carb doesn’t leave much room for an air cleaner in the frame.  What are you using for a filter?  

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[rhys]

We are about the same weight though your a bit taller so will be good to see how it pulls 4th. Ringing its neck in 3rd with a heavy flywheel might be the reason you have a two piece crank .
The W force is at a completely different level to the Malossi so I think your buddie needs to invest in a bigger bike.
I cant say if your clutch issue is the same as mine, the issue I had was with the back of the thrust bearing bottoming out on the nut before the plates separated enough to prevent drag. My background is similar to yours, I served a Mechanical Technician apprenticeship 35 years ago and have worked in Engineering/manufacturing ever since. If you measure everything the FB36 only has 2 mm of travel in operation to separate the plates so it must be set up correctly, too little and it drags , too much and you overstress the clutch arm or geared plunger ( I take it you are using a XL2 cover).
I had to make a spacer out of spring wire (an old key ring) to move the bearing out 1.2 mm and then chamfer the inside of the plunger cover and top of the nut to achieve the 2mm separation. I have all the springs in and operation is fairly easy but I am using the sip longer arm on the clutch cover.
My Polini motor gave 25.5 BHP and 17nm on the Dyno and I haven't had any issues with slip or drag, site wont let me upload photos ATM so if you PM your email address I will send some over.
I used a 36 Keihin, Big bertha and had timings set at 192/133 when it was set up for sprinting that's when it gave 25bhp and 85mph.
Now its set up for the road I've dropped timings down to 187/130 , 30mm dellorto and Franz pipe , current BHP is probably around 20-22 but a lot less manic to ride on the road.
I will probably set similar timings on the M1L60GTR I'm currently building but not sure which pipe to use.

[harleyracer59]

the crazy thing is i am running my original clutch cover. at least i think it is. with my drt gears and basket, i needed to dremel the case a little for the top gear. hard to explain but bot top gears i have were the same width. but the old one had a taper on the back side that cleared the case. the drt grear was straight or flat cut in the back. it actually cleared my cover with 1 gasket no spacer needed. the reinforced basket gave me a hell of a time getting into the case with the bearing installed. it was a few mm deeper than my stock. the clutch fit well below the top edge so i slightly rounded 2 of the corners on the basket tips. i mean barely. a couple passes by hand with a file. just to remove the sharp point on the tip. cleaning up 2 corners allowed me to slip the basket in. then i reassembled the clutch in the case, then used a washer and the old shift cross and the outside threaded clutch puller and bolt to compress the top plate and springs then placed the retaining clip. once completely seated i backed off bolt to release the clutch. and with everything in place, the clutch fingers dont even come close to those tips i filed. so i doubt it will make any difference in operation. i think i took pics of all that. let me look for them and ill post them.

i know those small taper cranks dont like getting their necks rang. i cut the outer edge off my flywheel up to the fins then had the balance checked. ill dig up those pics as well. i did that with the original cylinder when i first got the scooter. it was dumb luck that with the outer edge removed, it cleared my cylinder fins on the malossi. which is a problem ive read people had with the stock diameter flywheel.
i know this is a way different animal than the malossi. this 60x54 is violent. it revs stupid fast. is 3x louder, and just plain mean. cant wait to ride it. lol ill drop you a message with my info. i dont know how to post videos. but i know i can send in an email. id like to see your finding with your clutch issue. im really hoping i can work it out by messing with the adjustment and get lucky again.
i always say id rather be lucky than good. good takes practice, lucky just happens.... lol