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Post by quat444 on Feb 10, 2019 14:13:36 GMT
I've been trying to spec up a M200 to go into a late 50 special frame, and doing my best to learn from the wisdom of the members here. I'm not looking for a race bike, just a fun road bike that can be ridden around town, and taken on the occasional tour. There are great clues like vespasmallframeforum.proboards.com/thread/19635/quattrini-m200-build or vespasmallframeforum.proboards.com/thread/18455/quattrini-m200-cylinder-kitbut I cant find anything from the last year or two, and I'm curious what's the current "goto" spec. I'm not in Europe, so can only really buy from Scoot Center or Sip, so I'm mostly limited to what I can get from them. I'd like to try to keep the components to as few different suppliers as possible. For the examples below I've gone with DRT. So assuming the following Road bike for 60% around town and 40% highway touring. 50 Special Battery Door Frame C200 Cases M200 Cylinder Quatt F/C Crank 3.50 rear wheel Sip XL clutch cover Long clutch lever SIP vape The rest is up for grabs. Questions are 1. Is the M3-200 Quatt exhaust still be best (reasonably available) exhaust, or is there something better to fir a batterry door frame? 2. If I have a 46-50-54-58 standard PK gearset available, what input shaft and primary ratio should I look for. Or should I go more exotic www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/gearbox+kit+58545046+teeth+_13490700. 3. Primary. Is the DRT TOB worth it, and if so, what ratio? Or will this (or similar) do www.scooter-center.com/en/7671649/primary-drive-vespa-v50-pv125-et3-pk50-pk80-pk125-29-68-2-34-straight-teethed4. Clutch. Can the DRT superstrong handle this? Or do I need A Hartz 4 or similar 5. Cowl. Which will actually do the job? Finally, will In need to mod the frame? Really appreciate it if someone who builds these regularly or has done one recently can stop me spending money on the wrong bits. Thanks |
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Post by quat444 on Feb 12, 2019 13:12:10 GMT
Anyone?
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Post by madmax on Feb 12, 2019 21:34:18 GMT
Hi, I have built 3 so far and all have had 27/69 primaries with standard PK gearbox and xmas tree. I would recommend you change the basket on the primaries and use a CNC one, I have used a falc, a crimaz and a fabbri in the builds. The falc and the crimaz ones go in without mods but with the fabbri, I had to remove some ally from the bottom corners of the casings otherwise it wouldn't go in. I have fitted 2 falc clutches and a fabbri F36 wich is rated to just under 40bhp (is very similar to the falc but a bit cheaper), crimaz also does the CM5 wich is rated at 40 plus bhp. I'm not sure the M3-200 GTR will fit with side toolbox. The frame will need strenghtening around the bubbles to avoid splitting with the vibrations. The original engine side door won't fit as the casings are wider than standard so you will need to widen it. I suggest you rise the rear shock to help with clearance. A friend in Italy make some nice carbon fibre or fiberglass cylinder cowls, also make some nice carbon flywheel cowls.  |
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Post by quat444 on Feb 13, 2019 14:23:32 GMT
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Post by madmax on Feb 13, 2019 18:24:55 GMT
Yes for the first
No for the second, standard gearbox works really well with out f the box set up (the kit is designed for endurance) unless, you thinking of tuning it.
As for the third, I don't think the Berta would work as its not big enough.
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Post by quat444 on Feb 18, 2019 14:36:37 GMT
Thanks for that.
What % oil do they need?
Do yo have a link to the carbon manufacturer?
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Post by madmax on Feb 18, 2019 21:01:21 GMT
Which part of the world are you from? Judging from the 50 special battery door frame, I suppose you are in the good US of A?
You can order the carbon parts directly from various italian scootershops, I recommend 10 pollici. As per oil, a good fully syntethic will do.
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Post by tzsteve on Feb 20, 2019 17:44:37 GMT
i use any oil that has the spec JASOFC or JASOFD on the bottle the FD is the higher spec
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Post by quat444 on Feb 22, 2019 7:23:37 GMT
Oil wise I was actually referring to the percentage needed - there are refernces on the net, but only using google translate. They seem to suggest 4%, or 4% for the first 10 Litres, with no suggestion thereafter.
I'm downunder in Oz, so shipping can be tricky and is often very excy. 10 pollici don't ship to here unfortunatly.
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Post by quat444 on Feb 22, 2019 12:54:51 GMT
Instructions as posted on Scooter Center  Rolling these through Google translate gives "Wash all the parts thoroughly.
Install the bearings with the help of a high temperature hairdryer.
Bring the crankcase to 80/90 degrees, check with a thermometer or a drop of engine oil, when it becomes liquid like water you have arrived.
In the joint of the Loctite 510 crankcase and screws pulled to 0.8 KG (N 13xM6)
Between pinion-shaft and multiple-clutch Loctite 317 clutch.
A drop of oil on the connecting rod and in the cylinder barrel, Put the base gasket and insert the piston into the cylinder, pay attention to the segments! They have to cross the hub and the unscathed aspiration. If you hear a puncture, go back and repeat the operation.
Pull the cylinder screws to 1.8 / 2kg (n4xM8)
On the head level a thread of 510 loctite and pull to 1Kg (N8xM6) no grower.
Cut the facsimile cylinder cuff to that of the PX, the vertical wings of the head s must see for a couple of centimeters.
Rodate at least 10 liters, 4% good oil, before and after." Any clues or gotchas in that? |
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Post by tzsteve on Feb 22, 2019 15:29:57 GMT
nice translation.
you go to the top of the class
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Post by madmax on Feb 22, 2019 21:30:50 GMT
Oil wise I was actually referring to the percentage needed - there are refernces on the net, but only using google translate. They seem to suggest 4%, or 4% for the first 10 Litres, with no suggestion thereafter. I'm downunder in Oz, so shipping can be tricky and is often very excy. 10 pollici don't ship to here unfortunatly. The instructions are from quattrini and he suggests 4% for running in and after. |
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Post by tzsteve on Feb 23, 2019 16:01:29 GMT
yes i use 4% on my little 125 quatrinni as well
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Post by quat444 on Feb 24, 2019 11:34:14 GMT
Thanks! Build began this weekend in the traditional way...  Luckily the Missus was out. I'm a little worried about the primary basket. I took an RMS 27/69 apart and rebuilt it with a Falc CNC V0037 basket. No matter what angle I tried I couldn't get it to install built up, so I marked it up then pulled it apart. I installed the gear/shaft with the ring loose below it, then dropped on the basket and inserted the bolts from below one at a time. The bolts are loctited and fully tight, but theres some play in the basket/ring against the gear. (a really slight wiggle room). Video here (Link here ) The basket has "legs" for the bolts to insert into.  I'm wondering if it's designed that way, and the "legs" on the basket are acting as standoffs so theres some play for the springs to work, or if I need to pull it out and rebuild it again/better... Thoughts? |
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Post by madmax on Feb 25, 2019 17:42:06 GMT
There shouldn't be any play like that! Looks like the springs are not seated deep enough. Some of the newer baskets, require some mods on the casings to fit them. There were pictures on the drt website but can't seem to find them. If I remember correctly tho, you need to remove some material from the bottom corners, where the clutch cover seats. However, the falc basket should fit with no problems.
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Post by tzsteve on Feb 27, 2019 15:24:14 GMT
still the same top price for stuff that wont fit
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Post by quat444 on Jul 14, 2020 14:09:47 GMT
After a long hiatius, I'm back to this. Note for the uninitiated, SIP sell the wrong bearings and seals for the crank. Golly how annoying.
Question for the experienced M200 builders - with 2 ball type bearings on the crank, is it better to fit both into cases, then draw the crank through the flyside when closing the cases, or fit the flyside bearing to the bearing and heat the case for closing?
I'm assuming that with the lack of a gasket and the need for sealant, it's going to be better to have both bearings in the case, 'cos heating the case would cook off the sealant.
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Post by quat444 on Jul 16, 2020 13:42:56 GMT
Anyone?
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Post by henri on Jul 16, 2020 16:29:28 GMT
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Post by quat444 on Aug 5, 2020 13:53:23 GMT
Thanks Henri
How do you deal with the lack of gasket, and requirement for sealant. Doesn’t the heat ruin the sealant?
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