|
|
Post by eean on May 13, 2012 18:32:37 GMT
why? I shimmed it correctly using........wait for it......... Beedspeed shims, I read somewhere earlier in the week that these are not accurate? thats it for me I'm afraid, I'm only going to use European suppliers from now on, these so called English suppliers are only ever after your money for cheaply made or Indian shite parts. To put this right now means fuckin' stripping AGAIN completely so Beedspeed, Fuckin' thanks a lot you cunts  |
|
|
|
Post by sport100 on May 13, 2012 19:37:04 GMT
nicely put ian
|
|
|
|
Post by jacques on May 13, 2012 20:05:48 GMT
What did you shim your box to ian? You should be around 0.15 to 0.25mm with two feeler gauges either side. I shimmed mine to 0.1mm and it's a bit tight tbh.
|
|
|
|
Post by nickj on May 13, 2012 20:13:47 GMT
Not sure the European ones are much better. I had some from SIP and they seemed quite similar to the beedies ones. When measured with a micrometer they vary in thickness by 0.05mm or so around the width. Not sure if that is really going to give rise to the false neutrals or whether the cruciform has worn quickly...did you use a genuine piaggio one? Had a switch from SIP for my ets that was complete rubbish and sent it straight back so not sure the European suppliers are always better....
|
|
|
|
Post by jonnysnatchsniffer on May 13, 2012 21:36:08 GMT
there all shite just order a load an use some verniers to measure them, mine is shimmed to .1mm and i find it ok
|
|
|
|
Post by Jimmy D on May 13, 2012 22:53:43 GMT
I think before anyone starts calling anyone cunts they should get out the digital callipers and measure the shims! I used gearbox shims from LTH, first thing i did was measure the exact width, all fine.
Meanwhile there is a larger gap between 3rd and 4th, I just assumed by design as by the time you move to 4th everything's spinning faster.
|
|
|
|
Post by tony on May 13, 2012 23:55:26 GMT
This thread is interesting..  Use piaggio shims...I am sure LTH ones will be genuine.. if not knowing marco they will be good quality. Shim to .1mm. Not only use two feeler gauges but also ensure the circlips are moved out to their furthermost point in the grooves. Jacques why do you think .1 is too tight? I've tested .1mm in my motors for 20 years and its whats required, specially for high powered stuff if you dont wanna hurt gears and selectors. Piaggio werent expecting 30hp |
|
|
|
Post by 2fastscoots on May 14, 2012 9:21:56 GMT
Would shims really cause this problem though?.
|
|
|
|
Post by eean on May 14, 2012 16:44:42 GMT
I went to the same tolerances as Tony suggested when I shimmed the gearbox. The shims to my memory had to be filed to actually get them onto the shaft as the lugs were not square, this has also been a progressional thing where once I first rebuilt it, which is not long ago, the gears were fine, no jumping in and out of 3rd, measured by means of thickness gauges, I personally dont have a micrometer as I'm no engineer, but the shims should have lasted longer than they have done. I think I might get my next ones from LTH, they sound like the best to go for, the selector is a genuine Piaggio and the selector spring is an uprated SIP one, Beedspeed are cunts ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by jacques on May 14, 2012 17:36:51 GMT
My gears at the lever are a bit...hmm...'stiff' with a tight shim. Feels a bit more difficult going from 3rd to fourth.
Found my shims I bought from SIP had wonky lugs as well. Had to take a file to them to get them square.
Forgot to say, check you don't have play between the rear hub and bearing.
|
|
|
|
Post by eean on May 14, 2012 20:01:38 GMT
No play at rear hub and backplate J, I already been through that route with Tony when I rebuilt it  |
|
|
|
Post by jacques on May 14, 2012 20:14:29 GMT
Blame Beedspeed then! ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by tony on May 14, 2012 23:11:31 GMT
My gears at the lever are a bit...hmm...'stiff' with a tight shim. Feels a bit more difficult going from 3rd to fourth. Found my shims I bought from SIP had wonky lugs as well. Had to take a file to them to get them square. Forgot to say, check you don't have play between the rear hub and bearing. thats not shimming .... thats selector spring. Unfortunately we have a gear selector design that is meant for 6hp. You want big power you need to upgrade the parts you can to give it a fighting chance. There is a mod you can do to the gear lugs to help the gear change to be softer. But my guess is you are trying to use full clutch 3rd to 4th. If good crank is in you motor with a good cush drive you wont need much clutch... if any 3rd to 4th with a light flywheel. |
|
|
|
Post by jacques on May 15, 2012 6:59:29 GMT
My gears at the lever are a bit...hmm...'stiff' with a tight shim. Feels a bit more difficult going from 3rd to fourth. Found my shims I bought from SIP had wonky lugs as well. Had to take a file to them to get them square. Forgot to say, check you don't have play between the rear hub and bearing. Cheers. Don't use much clutch between 3rd and 4th as most of the time it clicks in nicely...that's when it's not being arsy and sticking.  thats not shimming .... thats selector spring. Unfortunately we have a gear selector design that is meant for 6hp. You want big power you need to upgrade the parts you can to give it a fighting chance. There is a mod you can do to the gear lugs to help the gear change to be softer. But my guess is you are trying to use full clutch 3rd to 4th. If good crank is in you motor with a good cush drive you wont need much clutch... if any 3rd to 4th with a light flywheel. |
|
|
|
Post by tony on May 15, 2012 16:56:33 GMT
I use genuine shims. They are as late PX. If you are having to file bits on shims they must be pattern.
I fail to see how tight shimming makes a gearchange stiff. Precise-yes... but it shouldnt be difficult to get it in and out of gear. I change gear with a two finger dab on the clutch lever on my race bike. As I said there is a mod that can be done to aid gear changes but I have never found the need on my stuff.
What makes gearchanges notchy can be an uprated spring mechanism as I said. I fitted that to yours. If its too much take it out. I normally use an uprated lambretta gear spring with a 2 to 2.5mm spacer. This method means the spring is working on its outer range and you are not over compressing it which can lead to them going weak. If thats in yours you can try downsizing the spacer less than what it is. But if you are making big power then you take the risk of damage. Why did you strip your gearbox and change shims btw?
|
|
|
|
Post by jacques on May 15, 2012 17:16:58 GMT
I put a short fourth in Tony for the PM40 pipe, parma ignition and 3.50 tyres. I've just recently tried a standard fourth but it's a bit long...and it's the standard fourth that's also sticking a bit. The gear face is a bit grooved so I don't think that helps. I'm thinking of putting the short 4th back or going to 3.00 tyres. It's more likely going to be the 4th gear as I'm not a huge fan of the S83 tyres on corners...too much movement in the tread pattern.
The spring and selector are still the same as when you built it, i've not taken the selector out.
|
|
|
|
Post by tony on May 15, 2012 18:16:26 GMT
I would then look at everything else mate. From the gear change on the bars ... where its set.. the quality of it.. ie is it tight at one end .. are the cables a1 etc.
Btw are you using a pk wheel on the motor end or is it a old pivot type one?
Use pk if you can.. much smoother action. But you will have to redrill the wheel to fit if you have the early pivot type at the moment.
|
|
|
|
Post by eean on May 16, 2012 17:46:38 GMT
Thats a new one for me Tony, I didnt think of the PK style wheel at the motor, I might try that when I rebuild it. I went through all this with you if you remember last time I rebuilt the box so I didnt have to redo it, only now its showing theres obviously more play in the gears than necessary as the shims are the only things I can suspect really of wearing, its just a pain when you know to fix this the whole things got to come to bits again  |
|
|
|
Post by tony on May 17, 2012 10:57:44 GMT
Do you mean play in lever or play in gearbox itself?
If you mean lever and cables are tight and you are not using wire rope type then you can get slack from year of the lugs on the gear fork... Or the casing is worn ... Or the hub bearing is worn or slack in the casing.
If its the gearbox then shims wear. Circlips wear as do the gears themselves.
|
|
|
|
Post by eean on May 17, 2012 17:36:46 GMT
Everything is spot on feel wise, I thrash through the gears and into third, it jumps in and out if I dont hold the handlebar lever towards second gear, I can then thrash it through third and into fourth, other than that it rides ace  I suppose I'll only know whats worn when I strip and inspect it all. I do have a spare gearbox in a 50 motor and stripped this a while ago, I dont think its done much mileage with the looks of the insides so I may just check the tolerances and swap it all |
|
I suppose I'll only know whats worn when I strip and inspect it all. I do have a spare gearbox in a 50 motor and stripped this a while ago, I dont think its done much mileage with the looks of the insides so I may just check the tolerances and swap it all