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Post by cezeta on Jul 14, 2009 9:41:18 GMT
sugarlump and i were discussing yesterday what would be the best set up for touring.
concidering:
1. fuel range
2. good top speed, as close to the golden 70mph as possible
3. reliability with a standard crank carb and ignition.
4. easy to ride, not race style power just p2 motorway cruising style.
whats your thoughts?
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Post by tony on Jul 14, 2009 12:45:21 GMT
As ben and you are aware I've just done a touring setup for sarah. Its a malossi with a reed intake on the barrel. Vsp3 race pipe (dont be fooled by the name). That motor has the same torque as Ste15s Quattrini M1r but delivers it much lower down. Ignition is standard electronic. It doesnt have a mega kick at all..it just drives like a normal prim but faster everywhere in the range with higher revs if you want it.
70mph with a standard carb is not really feasible as a 19/19 cannot deliver that amount of fuel to supply a motor with enough power to reach 70. I've done this conversion to one of mine and had to drill out the valve. It was sooo much better with a phbh on it.
As for fuel range, well any motor that has enough power to pull a smallframe to 70 is gonna drink more than standard. The reed will help for sure but fuel range is never gonna be great.
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Post by cezeta on Jul 14, 2009 18:55:34 GMT
thanks tony, yes sarahs scooter is great now.....trouble is her arms are too short to pull the throttle right back.......but just far enough to piss all over sugarlump from a great height. we have since discussed the the polini kit. what would it do top end with a standard carb and pipe? maybe 70 is out of reach (ben and sarah have no issues there though) so maybe 67 will be a good compromise. frustrating things scooters  |
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Post by sugarlump on Jul 14, 2009 20:05:21 GMT
wish i'd had the chance in france to cadge a ride on sarahs scoot, would be an interesting comparison... Did the malossi require a fair bit of your work though tony to get it less revvy? - I imagine if cezeta wants to keep standard pipe and crank he's being a tight wad  My side of the debate was more about ultimate touring set up - my thoughts were polini duel inlet, 25 phbl, pm pipe, primmy gears etc... A friend is getting a bunch of parma flywheel fans which we're gonna stick on machined down et3 flywheels too. |
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Post by unreliablesc on Jul 14, 2009 20:09:04 GMT
I always say that polini 130cc, with a malossi reed, 24mm carb and polini left makes a good tourer.. only had v90 primaries in mine, but it still made a great tourer. top speed 100kmh, 90kmh up the steepest hills western Norway has to offer.
tony, what port timings does VGs malossi have?
i would have thought it would be peaky as hell with the VSP race...
we are thinking about making a polini left with a expanding downpipe for my tourer... exhaust port is Ø33mm so all "low revving" exhausts needs modifying to work...
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Post by Juan on Jul 14, 2009 21:11:06 GMT
Standard carb and pipe?
Why not just bend over and touch your toes after running a rainbow flag up the pole?
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Post by jonnysnatchsniffer on Jul 14, 2009 21:56:59 GMT
do you not think a falc would sit at 65/70 all day then or the parma ? or the dr  |
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Post by tony on Jul 14, 2009 23:57:24 GMT
Cor blimey loads of questions. Sarah's is geared for 79/80mph. If she ducks down it should pull that with the power its making. Charlie actually knocked the power back a little as we knew she was going france and you cant guarantee the fuel. Port timings... ;D I'm not saying  . But I will say its port/time/area not just timings. Charlie helped get this spec right as most of my knowledge is race stuff and not suitable. Peaky? Not if you use the right port work and blowdown periods. I looked at all the off shelf pipes and went for that one because its the best built pipe out there at the moment in the price range. Its designed for 9000/9500 so sarah's is working to around that lower figure if she needs it. Its not peaky tho.. that was one of the 'design briefs' she wanted. It had to be driveable as she does rallies and isnt into burning up sugarlumps as a rule ;D I bleeding tried my best to let me really tune this motor but she wouldnt let me  Women eh... ;D |
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Post by tony on Jul 14, 2009 23:58:45 GMT
Standard carb and pipe? Why not just bend over and touch your toes after running a rainbow flag up the pole? ;D ;D |
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Post by tony on Jul 15, 2009 0:03:01 GMT
wish i'd had the chance in france to cadge a ride on sarahs scoot, would be an interesting comparison... Did the malossi require a fair bit of your work though tony to get it less revvy? - I imagine if cezeta wants to keep standard pipe and crank he's being a tight wad My side of the debate was more about ultimate touring set up - my thoughts were polini duel inlet, 25 phbl, pm pipe, primmy gears etc... A friend is getting a bunch of parma flywheel fans which we're gonna stick on machined down et3 flywheels too. ben, i dont get the et3 flywheel bit. They took two italians to lift em onto the bike. My theory is to get the motor working with good torque and you wont need a mass on the end to help you. The problem you'll have is what you've already had with snapped cranks. Try a pk50 flywheel as a compromise. You can get that in xl taper too i think. I've got one on my et3. its been lightened but it drives nice with a rotary malossi on it. |
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Post by cezeta on Jul 15, 2009 10:14:39 GMT
its not my scooter, its for czechmate whos racial mix is indian, jewish and scottish. he has the t3 primmy and is happy with it for town use but if he is going to be allowed to come out with the grown ups then he needs to do grown up speeds. so only the top speed is of any interest really, i told him to fit a cosa engine to it. not everyone wants or can afford exotic engine builds so its with this in mind that the debate started. you know how these things develop into a 1500 pound rebuild  sugalump wants to find jesus on a usa trip on his own with nothing but some wet wipes and some two stroke oil so thats a completly differant subject. thats him on the right with the chalfont st jiles christian scooter fellowship.  Standard carb and pipe? Why not just bend over and touch your toes after running a rainbow flag up the pole? |
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Post by tony on Jul 15, 2009 12:27:58 GMT
From Cezeta he has the t3 primmy and is happy with it for town use but if he is going to be allowed to come out with the grown ups then he needs to do grown up speeds. so only the top speed is of any interest really, i told him to fit a cosa engine to it.
How about the vg on the french rally(?) so I guess she was doing 'grown up speeds' then and allowed to play? ;D Personally I would think it be the lardy club that should get permission to come play as I dont think many of em could keep up if she decided to use the 9k rev limit. Just the suggestion of fitting a crap lardy motor to a smallframe deserves banning on here so I hand you over to the JUAN who will have his say shortly ;D |
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Post by jonnysnatchsniffer on Jul 15, 2009 15:33:40 GMT
come on tony dish out the port timings on vgs, its not the masons ya know, tho i do like a funny handshake.
it wont hurt to spill the beans as redoing the transfers in the barrel is beyond most people on here, even me ;D
can i guess at 185/127 with bigger and better flowed tranfers in the barrel
think i might need my tranfers sorting now ive incresed my blowdown period, or i might have to lose weight
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Post by cezeta on Jul 15, 2009 16:17:12 GMT
From Cezeta he has the t3 primmy and is happy with it for town use but if he is going to be allowed to come out with the grown ups then he needs to do grown up speeds. so only the top speed is of any interest really, i told him to fit a cosa engine to it.
How about the vg on the french rally(?) so I guess she was doing 'grown up speeds' then and allowed to play? ;D Personally I would think it be the lardy club that should get permission to come play as I dont think many of em could keep up if she decided to use the 9k rev limit. Just the suggestion of fitting a crap lardy motor to a smallframe deserves banning on here so I hand you over to the JUAN who will have his say shortly ;D ;D ;D ;D......it will be fine, just use one of bens huge panniers on one side to balance it out....simples! i was on a mugello 225 jet200, its a bit of a slug but quite nice to ride, both vegrantgirl and sugarbabe flew past me and i was doing 65-70 on my waveometer. they had to be doing 75 ish which if reliable would be grown up speed. sadly that was the last of bens crank. ben said he touched 80 recorded on a honda cb500 speedo on the way down. sarah has no trouble keeping up now and thats much safer than having a bunch of hgv s up your ass on a hilly motorway. but czechmate has not got the budget of those two rich kids and thats the problem anyway, juan recomended using a bike motor, i didn quite understand what he was suggesting but here is my first attempt.....its a cutdown.  |
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Post by Juan on Jul 15, 2009 17:52:58 GMT
Gone a bit far there. ;D Anyway, enough with this lardy motor nonsense. Besides, Cosa cases are even more unsuitable and ridiculous than P ranges ones. Ask me why. |
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Post by jonnysnatchsniffer on Jul 15, 2009 18:22:10 GMT
is it cos cosas are for cunts ?
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Post by tony on Jul 15, 2009 18:27:00 GMT
Well actualy I like that cutdown..its ace! Ben doing 80 eh on 13hp? Ok... That tail wind must of been doing 120  That vgs scoot will make 17hp or so on the diablo dyno and that will just, just do that kind of speed with a shortarse like me on it and tucked in behind the bars. |
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Post by sugarlump on Jul 15, 2009 18:48:16 GMT
I never said i did 80, the bloke on the cb did, cheers nick It's good for 75 but only on a big hill ;D In my defense of 13bhp on the dyno day i'd upjetted and was running a 3000 mile old single ring piston with a 0.9 mm ring gap ( ) Tony - the et3 flywheels were just cause we had some spare and access to a lathe, we were gonna knock a good kilo off it first - but like you said we're still left with a tiny taper  Anyway back to touring motors, we agree VG's got the best but how's about the polini twin as a basis ;D |
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Post by jonnysnatchsniffer on Jul 15, 2009 18:56:30 GMT
i reckon small tapers are ok with a very light flywheel, its only lardys that like the weight, ive ran a polini with just the cam, points and a battery and it was mad to say the least, no tickover and pull away at 6000 rpm ;D
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Post by cezeta on Jul 15, 2009 19:04:08 GMT
Gone a bit far there. ;D Anyway, enough with this lardy motor nonsense. Besides, Cosa cases are even more unsuitable and ridiculous than P ranges ones. Ask me why. go on then why? |
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. But I will say its port/time/area not just timings. Charlie helped get this spec right as most of my knowledge is race stuff and not suitable.
